Understanding Trauma Changes Everything ~ Denisha Workizer, Robin Blumenthal & Deborah Murphy Ep. 158

What if the way you respond to life makes more sense than you think?

In this special episode, Denisha is joined by Deborah and Robin as they celebrate five years of the Living the Reclaimed Life podcast and step into a new season of conversations together.

Through personal stories, laughter, and meaningful moments, you will get to know Deborah and Robin while also beginning to explore how understanding trauma can bring clarity to our stories and compassion to the way we relate to ourselves and others.

This episode is a mix of celebration, connection, and honest conversation, and it sets the foundation for what is ahead.

If you have ever wondered why you react the way you do, or long to understand your story in a deeper way, this episode is for you.

We would love to hear your thoughts for future episodes! Email us your ideas at podcast@reclaimedstory.com

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Download the Reclaimed Story app or visit reclaimedstory.com to get connected.

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1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE.
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Transcript

Transcription is auto-generated. 

I feel like that's when my healing journey began learning more about trauma and learning what trauma actually is. In that healing process really became the framework for understanding my story.

Speaker 1 1:04

That is exactly what we're talking about today. Welcome to Living the Reclaim life podcast today is a special episode as we celebrate five years of conversations about healing faith and reclaiming our stories, and we're going to step into this new season together. Today I'm joined by Deborah and Robin, and in this conversation, you will get to know their hearts, hear pieces of their stories, and begin to explore how understanding trauma can change the way we see ourselves and others. We're so glad you're here. Let's jump in. We announcer, welcome back to living the Reclaim life podcast. You guys, This month marks five years of conversations about healing, faith and what it looks like to reclaim our stories. We took a short break over the winter, and today feels really special, because not only are we celebrating five years, but I also get to bring two incredible women into this conversation with me. Now you may recognize them because both of them have been on the podcast before, but today, we're going to do something a little bit different. We're sitting down together to talk about, why do these Conversations Matter, and what we're seeing in the world right now when it comes to trauma and healing and white community is such an important part of our journey. So without further ado, I just want to introduce you to Deborah Murphy and to Robin Blumenthal, and today you're going to get to know them a little bit more. And I think this is going to be a really fun conversation. Well, as we get started today, we are celebrating five years of this podcast, and part of it, it seems like yesterday, to be honest, we started with a really simple desire to create a space where women could hear stories from other women, where we could hear teachings about healing, so women would know that they're not alone, and we could encourage them towards a vibrant relationship with Jesus. It started in my bedroom with a huge pile of laundry on my bed and a rickety TV tray with one mic, and I was absolutely terrified to turn it on. And so here we are, five years later, and I am so excited to share we are in we have 157 episodes.

Unknown 3:28

We have been downloaded in 111 countries and 15 119 cities in the US as of today. So here we are. And one of my favorite things about today, we get to celebrate all that God has done in the last five years. But I can't tell you how excited I am to celebrate what we believe he is about to do as I get to bring these two incredible ladies to the podcast. So this is kind of a relaunch episode, so I thought it would be fun for people to get to know you guys personally. So let's do, should we do a quick round of questions?

 Unknown 4:06

Sure do it all right, coffee or tea?

Speaker 3 4:13

Go ahead Deborah, because I'm already going to be the outlier. I can just tell you,

Speaker 2 4:18

Well, I actually I only drink water right now, but if I were to pick coffee or tea, I would pick tea, because I don't drink coffee at all. I don't I love the smell of it, but I don't like the taste of it at all. So and I grew up on my mom's sweet tea. So if I could have some sugar, which I try not to do, I would have some sweet tea.

Speaker 3 4:43

Gosh, well, see, and I thought I was the outlier, so I can see we're even more aligned than I realized. But I drink water, but I'm also a soda drinker, so I need my caffeine. I just don't like the flavor of coffee or tea, so there's that. But definitely I do like caffeine before 3pm if I want to sleep. And so that would be it. So Denisha, coffee or tea for you, or none of us coffee tea drinkers,

Speaker 1 5:09

not super coffee or tea drinkers, not really a hot tea drinker, right? Because we live in Arizona, and it's like 150 here, so I don't do hot stuff. But if I had to choose, I'm with Deborah on the sweet tea part that is so yummy. Oh yeah, like, Chick fil A has the best sweet tea you guys? Yep. Okay, so what's one thing that refills your tank when life feels heavy?

Speaker 3 5:38

I'll go first. Lately, it has been doing some crafting and just being able to be creative, which I never would have thought. And I would always be like, one of those, roll your eyes at people, because I'm like, whatever you need to do self care. And then I learned that I'm like, Oh my gosh, I am horrible at it. That's why I judge everyone else. But diamond art has been my latest because you don't have to use any brain cells just to do 112222, and at the end, it's sparkly and happy and it's a finished product. So I feel both accomplished and a little bit relaxed. And so that has been a self care thing of mine.

Speaker 2 6:18

How fun is that, Robin? I love that you're such a crafty person, too.

Speaker 3 6:25

So good. Thanks. But it's all done for you. It's really you. It's hard to mess up. This is another thing by you don't have to judge yourself. If you can match the numbers to the circle, you are golden.

Unknown 6:37

Also, that's amazing.

Unknown 6:41

Well, I like,

Speaker 2 6:43

I like crafts as well. I like to do any crafts or painting or something like that. I don't really get to very often. So my thing, I think that I that refills me, is just being able to sit down, play some piano, listen to some music, do some worship. It's both my my job and my thing that fills me so pretty cool to do something I love so much.

Speaker 1 7:11

I love that for both of you. I remember, what was it? Maybe now, last year sometime, Robin invited us over to hang out at her house, and she said, any craft stuff you want to do, just bring it. I thought zero crap stuff in my house, literally not crafty. But I loved doing diamond art, and we got to do some fun things. And I thought as long as somebody tells me exactly what I need to do, I can do, I can do crafts. So that was super fun. I think for me, definitely not singing unless I'm home alone. Deborah, you definitely have the gift with that. But for me, I think it's just time alone with four kids. I think just time alone and being able to hold thoughts in my head. And I think that's kind of what fills me up when life feels a little bit heavy there, though,

Speaker 3 8:02

and it's hard as a woman right to take time alone, because the minute you're alone, you're like, I should use this time to do the laundry or the dishes or whatever, and you know, so I think Good job. Good job trying to take some alone time. Denisha, you can be my telling you. It might be

Speaker 1 8:18

few and far between, but I really love that. Okay, what is a book that you guys have read that has impacted you recently?

Speaker 2 8:28

I'll go first. I most recently have read a book called reconnect, by Carlos Whitaker, and he was the guest speaker at our church. And I finally got through that book I had purchased it. He also did an amazing documentary on YouTube that really talks about reconnecting and disconnecting from life as we know it, taking time for ourselves and Oh, my goodness, if you need a good book, go out and get that one. It's a great one.

Speaker 3 9:06

Yes, I read that as a very good book for me. I think Denisha, you might have recommended this one to me, falling upward by Richard Rohr, I think is spirituality for the two halves of life. So it's about like you're beginning you know what you're trying to discover in the first half of your life. So I will not, you know clearly you can tell I'm I always tell people I am more than half dead, so whatever age God's going to call me home, I can tell you I will not probably live to be 120 so I'm definitely on the second half of life. And it, it was a little, a little more contemplative than I'm used to at the beginning. You know how you're like reading, and I'm like, I should really pause more, but I'm also like, I got to get it finished, and so, but I understood what he was saying. But then the second half, it really, it was really about how, what, what is the work that our spirit needs to do in the second half of life, and just the the view we have of the world and of people and of ourselves. And I thought, Oh, this is a book I'm going to need to return to. So there was definitely some things I took out of it, but one of those things that probably need to digest even more. But it was very, very inspiring and a little bit different than my my usual read

Speaker 1 10:25

that sounds awesome. Don't you love those books? When you go, I need to go back and reread this later.

Unknown 10:31

Yes, those are always those seasoned books.

Speaker 1 10:35

For me, it was, I just read. It's like this big you guys. It was 20 hours on audiobook, and it was one of those that after listening to the audiobook, I had to go read and get the book itself and underline and highlight. But it was Mel Robbins, let them the let them theory, and that is such a does my like, I need to do it again next year. Like 20 hours. We got to hold this out so I can do this, but with such a tendency to people please, it was so freeing to just be able to say, It's okay if they get upset, or it's okay if you do this, and they wanted you to do that and let them so if, if people pleasing is a thing, I highly recommend that book. I think it's been fabulous, though very, very long, but very worth it.

Speaker 3 11:26

And I think in that book too, I loved about it is she, we get so stuck in wanting to control what, even like our kids, right? Like if they would just make these better choices? And what? I enjoy that book as well, and it does fit a lot with that second half of life, I think too, because you can't really get to that piece. But what I really loved about it, for me is I felt like it was saying that I can imagine God in heaven, right? If so many times, God would probably be like, Oh, Robin, if you would just make this choice, it would be better for you if you would just use this gift the way I imagined you would be using it or whatever, and instead, like, like, God allows us like, kind of, right, let them, right. He lets us choose the path that he guides for us, because otherwise we would be marionettes or robots and and there's times when I would like that for my children, right? If you would just make this wise choice, we would all be happier. But I the let them theory really was about, how do I give them space to let God and their own emerging self do it? But still not just, you know, God doesn't, I don't think, say to us, like, Well, I tried to warn you, like, I don't see in heaven. He do that all day. Like, oh my gosh, Robin, here we go again, right? How? Like, I wouldn't want to follow a god that's like that. And instead, God's like, come back to me. And, you know, and I think that that let them help me to see raising teenagers, especially, you know, in a different light, get just the people I work with and and everything. So I love that book too. I'm glad that, glad you got to read it,

Speaker 1 12:55

yeah, and it's, it's let them and then let me. So let them do this, let me do this. And I think both of us talked about inserting, let God in the middle. So let them, let God and let me how, you know how we want to respond to things. So such a good book. And it's not, it's not written from a Christian perspective like but it is so good, such a good book.

Speaker 3 13:20

I was just telling someone the other day that, right? You know the prodigal you know the dad let his son do that, and he still embraced him when he came back. But the son, if he had said, Well, son, you know, I'm going to save you all this pain, the son would have just resented the father, right? And so the son went and experienced and came back. And I think that's that piece. It you're right. It wasn't written from a Christian perspective, but I feel like it really was a much like what God's heart for us is, in terms of that a small moment

Speaker 1 13:49

from your week or your month where you saw Hope Healing or truth break through, either in your story or in someone else's story. Who wants to go first? On that one,

Speaker 2 14:01

I'll go first. This week, I had a woman that I've been walking alongside of that had a powerful realization that she can set boundaries with her friends and her family and the bound those boundaries can help her to feel safe, and that for the first time, she understood that it that God is not upset at her when she does this. It was such a great moment and and then we went further and just walked through that. Actually, God desires this for us. He desires for us to feel safe and secure. So it was a beautiful moment for her. And I just love walking with walking with her during that

Unknown 14:46

That's amazing.

Speaker 3 14:48

Yeah, I guess for me, I think about just recently, our youngest daughter, who we adopted out of foster care, decided that she wanted to move out again, and she has done that a couple times, and is made some decisions that we think were maybe not always in her best interest, kind of that let them idea. And she was like, I'm, you know, going to be 22 and I'm going to do what I, you know, what I want. And this is I got to make my decisions. And and as we, as we led her like with open hands, right? And set some both boundaries for us and kind of let them, you know, and said, Well, we will. We'll be here regardless, even though we don't think this is in your best interest. And I kid you not, it had been a while since she had been going to church, and even just being, like, general polite and within like, 48 hours, she's like, Oh, I'm going to be going to church Sunday, and is there something I can do to help you guys? And we're like, when you lived in our home, you, you know, like that entitlement, and then and now that we gave you the freedom that you desired, but you looked back and saw that anchor and that support, and we kind of just felt like she grew like a big jump by making that choice and knowing that we were still here for her, even if we didn't support it. And we kind of just felt like there was a part of her younger self that was reclaimed in that right, that she knows that we're her parents who love her, even that we did the thing, that we're like, I don't think this is really going to go well for you, and then suddenly we're like, Who is this mostly helpful kind I'm going to try church again now that you are just like it just reminds me that God, that God can reclaim anything right, that when we just hold it loosely, we say, Okay, God, you love her far more than we ever love her. You love this woman far more that right, all of that, we hand it to God and how He can continue reclaiming stories and lives and so that we're still in process with that. But it was just a reminder that regardless of what we think we can control, the real Reclaimer is God and what he does in our lives.

Speaker 1 16:53

Amen. Amen. Oh, I love hearing that story. That's so cool. How about you? I think, I think about two weeks ago, I think it was a gal called us who was just going through a really hard time, and she got our email, and then we ended up touching base over the phone, and as she was sharing her story, I kept kind of probing a little bit deeper, asking more questions, and then at the end, she said, This is the first time that I've never felt ashamed of my story. And I thought, man, yes, you know that that's a safe place, and we're actually able to help her get some counseling too. So I thought that was that was really just one of those moments that I'm like, that's the beginning of reclaiming God's rescuing her and showing her that there is a safe place for him to begin the restoration process. So it just, it was just encouraging, you know, as we're just having a conversation, she emailed, she was referred to us, and then I got to talk to her, and it's just really neat at the end, this is the first time I don't feel ashamed of my story, like, you know, this is here I am, and you're okay with it. And so it was just a neat moment there.

Speaker 3 18:01

I'm glad you could be here. Be there for her, both of you for your friends,

Speaker 1 18:05

yeah, so fun, and for your daughter. Amazing. Deborah, many people know you as a worship leader and a ministry leader, but your story is also one that has a big healing component to it. Would you share a little bit with us about your journey and what led you to pursue trauma informed care?

 Speaker 2 18:29

Yes, I'd love to you know my story kind of starts out as this. I grew up in a Christian home. I always wanted to do things the right way. After high school, I married someone that I had met during those years. Not long after that, after getting married to him, the relationship became abusive, and I stayed in that relationship for 12 years, believing God that he was going to heal and restore and bring bring back what was broken. Eventually, I had a couple kids, and the abuse really began to affect me. Finally, I made the difficult decision to leave. I found myself in a single mom situation, carrying a lot of the weight of everything that I had endured. And then after that, I feel like that's when my healing journey began learning more about trauma and learning what trauma actually is. In that healing process really became the framework for understanding my story. And then after that, that is what helped to reconnect me, like to my body, to recognize my needs, to begin to heal in ways that I hadn't really thought was possible. And then one of the very first people actually that helps me understand that was actually Robin. So actually Robin was one of those people who really got me into understanding trauma for the very first time and knowing more about what it was. And it was with the Arizona trauma informed faith community that you do so much with Robin, and you've started, and it's such a beautiful work, and I can't thank you enough for just like, allowing me to be part of that legacy that you've left for that but understanding what trauma is and understanding how it affects other people was truly life changing for me, and I'm just so grateful to have the understanding and knowledge now that I do and being a part of that legacy. So yeah,

Speaker 1 20:47

we wouldn't be here in a whole lot of ways if, if it wasn't for you, there, friend, no trails.

Speaker 3 20:53

I don't know about that, but God to God the glory. Because I feel like we never know where God's going to lead us, right, and how our stories get woven together with other people's stories. So I'll share for me how I first learn is I actually went to a I've been a pastor for years, and I went to a chaplains course because I thought, wow, I'd like to also get equipped to maybe be a chaplain someday, or what that means. And in that, in that course, we spent a lot of time talking about how trauma affects the brain and how our experiences affect the way we process things and and during the course, it wasn't even there was only a now that I've gone through the course several times, it really was a very small section on trauma. But for me, that was such an eye opening experience that I remember in the moment of hearing as she was talking about that, and just getting really teary eyes, and you know, like this moment where, you know, like this is something that I'm going to be doing for the rest of my life. Like this is a piece of what God wants for me to understand, even though I still didn't understand the big picture, and I'm sure I still don't. But for me, it was in that course that I realized it was the missing piece as a pastor. So many times I had worked with women or families or marriages, and, you know, maybe somebody who was struggling with alcohol, or somebody who was struggling with believing who God said they would be. And, you know, and there would be times that I just want to be like, well, just stop it, or just believe it, or just do it like what is so hard. And I realized that this idea of trauma in much of what happened in our early childhood was the block, right, or the the way that distracted us from who God called us to be, of who God said we could be, or or how we can make better choices, that that the needs of our past in our childhood were what would was determining this adult behavior. And it was as I began to understand all that, to me was the missing piece that a lot of time for churches like I could say, This is what God's Word says. This is who God says you are. But the disconnect came in what the world and what early childhood said, and for me, I was like, this huge aha, that this was the missing piece that people needed to understand this so that they could then lean into who God called them to be, or understand how healing happens. And I'm not saying that God can't do miraculous healing. Absolutely he can, but many times it comes through healing and seeing that whatever happened to us is, you know, early childhood or a traumatic event. And so I think that's what got me so excited, is I felt like, instead of hitting my head against the wall, like, why is this so hard for people, I was like, oh, it's because this piece was never addressed, or how we looked at that. And so for me, that first got me on that journey of learning more, and since once you begin to see it right, you can't unsee it. You can't unsee the connection of what has happened to us and then how God can heal and reclaim that and that beautifully broken lay before God and what He can do with it has now been an amazing journey that I continue to be able for my life and for people that I talk to or work with,

Speaker 1 24:06

and you have trained 1000s of parents and educators in that are there any patterns that you've seen when it comes to trauma and teaching them about trauma informed care, any patterns you've seen as you've been out there?

Speaker 3 24:19

I think there's, that's a big question. So, yeah, yes, I think one of the the things that I would say in this particular episode is that when we can begin to to look at somebody through the eyes of the journey they've walked right that that empathy, to be able to say, what must it be like to see the world from your eyes or to walk the journey you walk, it gives me a different understanding. And so I think one of the things that I'm very passionate about helping people understand is I might not be able to change what happened to you or what you're going through, but I can show up differently for you when I take on that lens. To me, it's like that trauma informed lens. It allows me to look at what you're doing, what you're seeing differently than my my normal human lens. I often tell people like I have these computer glasses on. That makes you guys nice and crystal clear right now. But when we finish this episode, I will invariably, as always, I will forget, and I'll start walking around, and I'll think, Why is the world so blurry? And it's because I haven't changed that lens. And I think that the pattern I see is that many people look at each other and activities through the lens they have. That's the only lens they have, right? Because it's how their childhood was, or what they've been taught. And when we begin to change out that lens, it doesn't it just changes how we show up for other people, even our own selves. When I look at that and go, Why am I like this? Or why am I so stressed, or why am I not as patient, or whatever, and if I can take it's that little bit of that having grace for ourselves, like, oh, it's been a rough week like this, makes that compassion and showing up differently. I think is a pattern that most of us it's a very purposeful change that's hard to make, but if you can begin to make that, it does really change everything.

Unknown 26:14

Well said, Deborah, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 2 26:18

Yeah, it's the same. It's it's the same kind of thing, you know, being both a worship pastor, trauma Support Specialist, like those things that deepened my empathy, my compassion for people. It's helped me to learn to look beneath the surface, right, to understand where the root of what they're experiencing is like is coming from, from, and to experience what they're experiencing, rather than responding in my own way to what is visible in their own life. And that perspective shift will allow me to be able to care for people more in a holistic approach from from all all angles, all sides, recognizing that like that, connection between them in their emotional pain, their physical pain, their spiritual pain, it's all connected, right? Because we're a whole person. We're we're not cut into fragments of you know, when we go to it's funny how we go to the doctor in this country, we go to a heart doctor for this. We go to a, you know, a surgeon for, you know, the brain for this. We but we are one holistic person, and so we have to, you know, approach it from a different lens, like what Robin was saying, and say, Okay, so from that space I'm going to come and I'm going to try to help this person, and doing that helps me to create a space for them that is that they are able to feel more seen, more loved, more understood, more safe, which opens the door for them to genuinely see God for who he is, and connect with God in that way. So that's, that's where I come from, is similar, very similar to what Robin was saying.

Speaker 1 28:08

What a great point you made too about when they're seen and when they're known, that creates such a safe place for them. Which boy, we can't have healing without that safety. And that just, yeah, that really struck me when you said that,

Speaker 3 28:22

especially you think about the woman at the well, right? I mean, if Jesus had started off with, you know, I don't know who you are to talk to me about this, or if you had only made better choices. I mean, he really, he she felt known and seen. She went and told everybody, you know, meet this man, but she also felt loved, or she wouldn't have said, Come and meet this man who told me it wasn't just a fortune teller kind of guy, or who could see the past or the present. She felt a connection with him, and it's because he saw all of her and started with where she had been. And yet, you know that whatever, we don't know the rest of the story, but God wouldn't have just left her like that, right? Because he desires to see the wholeness that He created us to live in. And so I just think the more I see Jesus through the lens of that, it understands why his ministry was so vastly different than than the religious leaders of the time.

Speaker 1 29:19

And what did she do come and see I forget the exact scripture, come and she goes through the town where she was shamed, where she they knew what she had done, come and see the man that has told me everything that I've done, like that, that brings tears to my eyes, like he knows everything. And she was like, you have to come and see this man, not this man berated me, or he shamed me, or he was come and see you need to experience this too. We've experienced that love and that forgiveness of Christ. We can't help but go and share it with other people. It's so amazing, so much with that. Yeah. So last question before we talk about where we're going to head in the future, what is the difference between fixing someone and walking with them? This is a loaded question.

Speaker 4 30:18

Go ahead, Robin. Oh, I was going to say Deborah, go, go. You got it?

Speaker 2 30:24

Well, I feel like fixing someone is more about control, or like a quick solution, right? Whenever you're trying to fix it, you're trying to come up with something, you know, quick and fast, and you're wanting, in some ways, to control that situation. So you're trying to fix it, you're trying to make it better. But walking with somebody really is not about stepping into that role as fixer or fixing it. It's just about your presence. It's about listening. It's about honoring, right, and being at the pace of wherever they are. It doesn't. Doesn't say that we have to go fast if we don't need to go fast. It doesn't say that we have to go slow if we it just really is about the pace that they're at and honoring their story. So I, like I believe truly, whenever we can walk with somebody, that's when real healing happens. When we get out of that fixer mentality, stop the fixing, and we go into their journey and just go at their pace. And there's no instructions for that, by the way. It's just very much so shoot from the hip, which I love.

Unknown 31:39

That's, I don't know I'm that person, I guess.

Speaker 2 31:43

But yeah, that's where I'm where I'm at with it. I was

Speaker 3 31:48

thinking about the let them theory. Denisha, when you think about that, there was a lot of that tied in. So probably one of the hardest parenting days of our entire life was with our adopted daughter, Angel, but it was about a month before her adoption, and she came home from school and she said, That's it. I will never go back to that school. You can't make me. If you make me, I will run away. Now, there's so much that I know now, right? It was a month before the adoption, I'm thinking, hey, you should be excited. Like, I don't even understand right now the loss she's going through. Like, but in that moment, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, what do we do with this child who now wants to run away and doesn't want to go back to the school that she just chose? By the way, it's the first week of school, and you know how much transition she's been in, and I know that starting another new school, and I'm processing, and I remember, like, literally just from God, we said to her, we will adopt you no matter where you live. And there was something in that moment to say that, like, we will walk with you, whatever that choice is, like, we're not going to force you to make this choice, even though there was a part of me that's like, of course you're going to stay at this school. Like, what are you thinking? But in that moment, by saying that and talking about giving her that freedom and that choice, but saying we are here for you, whatever that journey looks like. And I kid you not, I was a little bit longer conversation that, but that was the gist of it. And as she stopped crying and sobbing, and she says, Okay, fine, I'll stay at this school, but I won't like it. And I remember thinking one, I can't believe that even worked, that, that we said that, but, but the trauma part of knowing why that worked is we said we will love you, right, regardless of how hard you make your life, our love will always be here. And it was that power of presence, but giving her brain the freedom to make whatever it needed to make for her to get to a space where she then came back and said that, and equally to be if she had left and said, you know, I'll come back, because I don't. I don't know what it looks like to adopt someone if they run away, still too. But her, knowing that our net is here, I think kind of shares a little bit of what you were asking Denisha, right? That control, because when we try to control people, it like I said, I understand as I read things. Now, when we understand how trauma affects our brain and our story, it changes how we show up in somebody's life, right? And if we can show up and say, I see you, I know you, I love you, which is, I think the same way God shows up in our life, but I'm still giving you freedom to make your choices, that that's that powerful inner change, something that begins to happen in any way that was kind of just that occurred to me, I think that that's a that's the power of presence. I guess it could be an action, even when the story doesn't go the way we would think, or would want it to go, or without pain, even

Speaker 1 34:43

so true. So good. Yeah, so good, Robin.

Speaker 3 34:46

Well, those words we got, I don't want you to think I'm really that good, that God just gave us those words. And in the beginning, I'm like, I can't really believe that worked, but, but I know why it worked, because I know what God was doing when we just open ourselves up to, like, speak my words, you know God's words better than you know whatever knowledge I have, which is, you know, there's a little

Speaker 1 35:07

Brene Brown video and that I personally love, and it's empathy versus sympathy. And the guy, there's this sad little, I forgot the animal that's downstairs, but it's like in this little pit, and it's really sad, and it's crying. And one guy is upstairs trying to go, you want a sandwich? He's trying to fix it. You want this? You want that? Well, hey, dude, just do this. And the other guy climbs down a ladder into the pit with the person or the little animal and just sits with them. And that's that power presence that you mentioned. You just sat with her and said, Okay, I'm not going to fix it, but we love you. That's amazing. That's a great this is why you teach parenting classes. Robin, no,

Speaker 3 35:46

the funny thing is, is literally when we're at the end of ourselves, because she is. She was bigger and stronger than us. And I know like you're right, unless you handcuff someone, you know, and put them into a gated you're not going to be able control it. And I think there's the we it's a weird sense of freedom when I know that I can't control, but it's like you have to get past yourself because you want to control. And that's where I keep going back to God. I mean, if anyone could control us and controls for our own good and make good things come out of it, would be God. And yet, why would he choose to not do that? Because all of us, I think, it would be like, Well, I sure wish you would be doing that. And yet, if we were living that way, then we would be fighting it every step of the way, right? Because we'd be like, I don't want to choose Jesus, or I don't want to choose whatever it is. And God, I don't know, somehow, in his infinite wisdom, knows that that's the you know, unconditional love and still consequences in presence, in handing it to you and letting you have control. And it somehow, it beautifully ties together, but in our minds, we would never have written it like

Speaker 1 36:51

that, right? Neither. Yeah, definitely. Oh, this is so good you guys. I think we could talk probably all day and and just continue, just carry on. So we will have many, many more episodes together. You guys. Thank you for sharing. And as we look in this next season, there's something that the three of us are really curious about. There's so many conversations that we want to have, but we want to hear from you guys. We want to hear what are some topics and that you would like us to explore in the future, about healing, about having that vibrant relationship with Jesus, about trauma, informed care, healing from our past. What are some topics that you're like? I wish we could hear more about this. Would you email us and it comes right to us. So if you would email us at podcast, at reclaimed story.com, we would love to sit and look through all of your thoughts and suggestions and plan some episodes around that, and bring in professionals and bring in guests who can speak to those particular topics. And maybe that could be trauma informed faith, as Robin talked about parenting through trauma, healing and community, how churches can become safer places for our stories, or even understanding the impact of our stories. There's a few ideas that we threw together, and I'll bet you have even more. So we want to give you what you want and be able to serve you in that way. So you guys, for today, we're going to we're going to close, and it's going to be really hard, but we're going to come back and we'll have bi weekly episodes. So thank you for today, Robin and Deborah, thank you for being here and for just joining us as we celebrate five years of living the reclaimed life. And if today's conversation encouraged you, we'd love for you to share this episode with a friend, and we'd love to hear from you so you can email us anytime. We are real people, real women. Here in Tucson, Arizona, there's no bots, there's no secretaries. It is literally the three of us, so we'd love to hear from you again. Podcast at reclaim story.com. Any final thoughts, ladies,

Speaker 2 39:10

now we, I just want everybody to know. Thank you so much for joining us. It's just a beautiful thing that you're even desiring to allow God to come into your journey and to help you out along the way. I'm just excited for whatever it is that God has for you. So thank you so much for coming in and listening and watching and being a part. We really appreciate you Yes.

Speaker 3 39:37

And thank you, Denisha, for putting together a platform that so many people have been driven to, because I think that there's a lot of times I know, for me, it would have lived in my head forever if I had had an idea, because I'm like, I don't know how to do this or this. And I loved your vision of the laundry, maybe outside of the camera view in your room, because all of us are on a journey, right? And I think God just says, just take a step forward. So I'm glad you took a step forward, and I am blessed beyond belief to take a step forward with all of you, both on the screen and those of you listening. So thanks for joining us.

Speaker 1 40:13

And Robin, yes, remember a couple of times you said it was all God, it was all God, because I was real terrified. So All right, guys, well, we will see you same time, same place in two weeks. Thanks for listening.