Living the Reclaimed Life
Living the Reclaimed Life
Rhythms of Repair ~ Dale Hodgeson Ep. 151
If you’ve ever felt the sting of broken relationships or wondered if healing and reconnection are even possible, today’s episode is for you. You’re going to meet Dale, who has spent over 20 years walking with others through story work. He’ll explain what story work is and why engaging your story in community can be one of the most powerful steps toward healing.
Dale will be sharing about the rhythms of repair, how intimacy with others is actually deepened through moments of rupture, and the hard but hopeful work of repair. This is a conversation about honesty, vulnerability, and opening ourselves up to hope, even in the midst of tension.
And before we jump in, I want to remind you about the Reclaimed Story App. Inside, you’ll find a safe community of women, daily encouragement, Scripture, and resources designed to help you walk your own journey of healing. It’s free to download on the Apple App Store and Google Play, and we would love to connect with you there.
Stay connected with Dale at thetensionofhope.com
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1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE.
2. ABC's: CLICK HERE for a FREE E-book to help you combat lies and replace them with God's truth. For more encouragement, check out some of our offerings at www.reclaimedstory.com
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Transcript is auto-generated
Living the Reclaimed Life Podcast - Episode 151
Rhythms of Repair: Finding Healing Through Story Work with Dale Hodgeson
In this episode of Living the Reclaimed Life, Denisha sits down with Dale Hodgeson, a story work guide with over 20 years of experience, to explore how engaging our personal stories in community can lead to deep healing and reconnection. Dale shares how rupture and repair can actually strengthen intimacy, why safe spaces are essential for honest vulnerability, and how story work disrupts patterns of disconnection to bring hope.
Main Talking Points
- What story work is and why it matters for healing
- How rupture in relationships can lead to deeper intimacy through repair
- The role of shame, contempt, and masks in keeping us disconnected
- Why community is essential for processing trauma and rebuilding connection
- How to create safe spaces for story work and repair
- The rhythm of repair with God, ourselves, and others
- Why grief is necessary to keep hope alive
- The tension of hope and why it often feels dangerous
Short Summary
In Episode 151, Denisha and guest Dale Hodgeson unpack the rhythms of repair—how entering into our stories, facing rupture, and pursuing repair in community can bring lasting healing and hope.
10 SEO Keywords
story work, rhythms of repair, healing in community, trauma recovery, vulnerability and hope, intimacy through repair, shame and contempt, safe spaces for healing, Dale Hodgeson interview, Living the Reclaimed Life podcast
5 Strong Quotes
- “Repair isn’t a one-time event—it’s a rhythm that builds safety and intimacy.” – Dale
- “Disconnection is easy, but connection requires courage, vulnerability, and community.” – Dale
- “We don’t grow closer by avoiding rupture—we grow closer by repairing it.” – Denisha
- “Hope feels dangerous, but it’s also the very thing that keeps us alive to love.” – Dale
- “This process is disruptive because it moves us from survival to authentic connection.” – Dale
Transcript
Denisha 0:00 Welcome back to Living the Reclaimed Life. I'm your host, Denisha, and I'm so glad you're here. If you've ever felt the sting of a broken relationship or wondered if healing and reconnection are even possible, today's episode is for you. You're going to meet Dale, who has spent over 20 years walking with others through story work. He'll explain what story work is and why. Engaging your story in community can be one of the most powerful steps toward healing. Dale will be sharing about rhythms of repair, how intimacy with others is actually deepened through moments of rupture, and the hard but hopeful work of repair. This is a conversation about honesty, vulnerability, and opening ourselves up to hope, even in the midst of tension. Before we jump in, I want to remind you about the Reclaimed Story app. Inside, you'll find a safe community of women. Daily Encouragement, scripture, and resources designed to help you walk your own journey of healing. It's free to download on the Apple App Store and Google Play. Now let's lean in as Dale invites us into the healing journey of Rhythms of repair. Welcome to Living the Reclaim Life podcast. I'm Denisha. We're glad you're here for conversations that revive hope, inspire healing, and encourage you to live a vibrant life with Christ. So grab a cup of coffee as we chat with today's guest. Our guest today has been walking alongside others in story work for over 20 years, with trainings from the Allander Institute in Seattle and Open Hearts Ministry in Michigan. He is passionate about creating safe spaces where people can bring their heartache and experience God's healing in community, as part of the Narrow Gate team in Tucson. He considers it a privilege to witness the power of connection and redemption in people's stories. I am so excited to welcome to the podcast, Dale Hodgeson. Dale, I'm so glad you're with us today.
Dale 2:05 Thank you for inviting me. I really appreciate it.
Denisha 2:09 So you've been doing and we're going to get into what story work is to because a lot of our listeners may be like, what story work? You've been doing story work for over 20 years now. So take us back to the beginning. What first drew you into this type of work?
Dale 2:24 Oh, misery with that in a marriage, you know, with my wife Cindy. And we knew something was off. It was just things weren't right with us. And we had an opportunity to get into a couple's group, actually out of Phoenix. And we met every other weekend. There's like six couples, and we did Islander type work and story work of just going back into your your history and your past and, you know, beginning to discover what what structures were built in your life so you could survive your, your upbringing and then how that comes into your adult life. And so my wife Cindy and I went into this group for people who had done some, some significant work before that, and they invited us down a path in a safe place where we could kind of fall apart and, and go to war in the midst of this safe place to begin to learn and develop a rhythm of repair within our own relationship.
Denisha 3:19 So that took going back to figure out the patterns and things, like you said, systems you had in place. What did what did that look like for you?
Dale 3:27 I was really difficult for me. I was very disconnected, disassociated, you know, had everything shoved down in a small pipe with a big thing on top of it. So it didn't make any sense to me at all at first, but it just took time at a safe place. It took lots of grace and lots of mercy. It took a, you know, people that were willing to say difficult things to me and people to show me and guide me to places that I can't see on my own. You know, we weren't able to see some of these places that the harm is and how we treat ourselves. And so it's just it took a lot. It took a lot of patience and kind care and love to walk with me slowly to whatever pace I was moving at to help me connect to reality.
Denisha 4:14 I know you had mentioned that in that during that space, you really connected with someone in a really cool way. Tell us a little bit about that.
Dale 4:23 Yeah, I would just describe that. I think I spent most of my life, you know, fragmented. I've got fragmented stuff going on in my childhood story, so I'm just completely disconnected. So to feel someone in my heart like, first you have to be able to feel. And so this process took some, some time to follow me out or, you know, coaxed me off behind the wall. We talk about having a mask hiding behind walls. So we have these structures that we use that are usually detrimental to us in order to stay safe. So as time went on that as an adult, that's the first time I remember actually connecting to a human being. Because when we enter these stories of trauma, we get in a very vulnerable state, and we have certain biochemicals that are coming in our in and out of our bodies. And when you're in community, it's those same biochemicals that we use in trauma to stay safe, fight, flight and freeze, but in a safe place where we're engaging it instead of running from it, it those same biochemicals connect you as a group. And so that's that special connection or that piece of connection to another human being, I think was, I don't think was totally foreign to me because connecting to myself was totally foreign to me.
Denisha 5:42 Can we pause in that a little bit? I know for years I lived, as you described it, as disconnected. What is what does that mean? Dissociated. Disconnected from ourselves? Tell us a little bit more about that. I think that's something that we don't talk about a whole lot.
Dale 5:57 I mean, I mean, it's it's so important in the story. Is, is is right where we're going because is our 0 to 18 story where we where we build and formulate these structures to navigate through life. You know, and if you think about it like these structures are built when our brain has not fully developed. So a lot of our translation of life, how we experience life is, is gone through a brain that has no logic and no reasoning. And so I think a lot of the like, triggers and things that take place are feelings. So we're really dealing with feelings and, and and we don't like to feel. So we disassociate. We disconnect from that feeling, whether it be powerlessness, whether it be shame, whether it be betrayal, abandonment, whatever that feeling is, we'll do anything to not feel that. And so many times we turn on ourselves in hatred and contempt so that we don't feel the shame of our wounds. movements. So you develop this these structures and patterns and rhythms of surviving your life that require you to be numb, to be really dizzy. I mean, there's just so many ways that we use to not feel. And so that's, you know, even even being regulated. I mean, you know, I didn't start regulating. So, you know, in the last ten years even, and doing a bunch of group work and not really thinking about regulating Co regulating re regulating. All of those things are a disruption to disassociation. So even my breath in just a few minutes I can bring myself into the present and re regulate with my body. Even if I jump back out of that into five seconds later. But I find those little places to get back to regulation. So that's what I'm talking about in is deregulation. Disassociation is an escape from this greater harm that my body carries in trauma. Remembered responses.
Denisha 7:51 I think you explain that really well, but I wonder, I wonder if that that numbness, that dissociation from our reality of what our bodies and our hearts are feeling. If that leads a lot also to us putting up a mask so we don't have to be vulnerable too.
Dale 8:06 Yeah, I mean, all of it is on this layer of shame. So as a child growing up, I mean, shame is a huge part of our childhood story. And what we've done with that, and the next layer is contempt. And out of the shame covered by contempt comes our style of relating or how we engage the world.
Denisha 8:24 Explain what you mean by content.
Dale 8:26 So most people, most human beings don't stay in shame very long. And literally within seconds you feel this, this, this weight of shame hit you. And it could be in a thousand different ways. Something said, something done. It's usually a visual piece as well to that, especially in relationships. And you feel that and boom, you feel this shame and you just you go to contempt of I hate you or I hate me. Or why did I do that? Why didn't I think it'd ever be good? Let me kind of back to what your mask was. Why would I tell you how today is going and you're going to dump me tomorrow, so I'll save you the trouble and dump myself now. So there's there's a lot of belittling and making less of you, but there's. But we usually use both. We usually use contempt towards other people and towards ourselves, but sometimes we're better at one or the other. But if the shame is high enough, we'll find either one of them. Whatever will kill that initial shock of shame. And so you build that layer on layer on layer, because as a kid you have if it's not being addressed, it stays in your body. You build a structure and it's and as an adult, you still feel that out of your body, that shame. And you still have this rhythm of, of, you know, of disrepair. We'll talk this morning about a rhythm of repair, but we generally learn a rhythm of disrepair which causes disease or disease, because trapped trauma in our bodies causes all kinds of health issues, mental issues. And so part of this process is, is being able to go into that in a safe place and through anger and through grief to have some of that trauma, stress come out in community, not in isolation, which trauma isolates.
Denisha 10:08 Why doesn't it? That's true. Why is it so important? And I know you've done a ton of work in community, so you have an expertise in this area, I would say. Why is it so important for us to engage in a community in this type of work, versus doing it on our own? It feels a lot safer to do it on our own than it does in community.
Dale 10:30 And I think one of the there's a there's several really, really good reasons to do community, but we were created for community. And the reason that that the trauma, the trauma, stress, it's not actually the trauma usually that causes the most damage. It's unaddressed trauma that leaves the stress in your body. It's called post-traumatic stress disorder. And so when you keep that stress in your body, it causes. So that that isolation piece is huge. So we're talking about shame. So when you're in a community of people and you've spent your whole life in a life of judgment and self-condemnation, and you go into these stories of shame and harm in a community where there's no there is no judgment there. They're sending alongside you with blessing and not condemnation, and they're your witness as you connect to this young part of you in a story. And that's a huge healing pieces of validation. It's having a face. It's having a witness. It's the safety the group brings. And and there are things in our story and in our being that we can't see on our own, because we self justify. And our vision of what has transpired in life is, is through our grid and through our lens. And that's all we have. And a big part of that is done through most of your nonverbal and very little verbal and immature brain. And then we have adults today around us that hear, smell, taste because they can feel things that we can't. And so having the group around you creates this, this, this trust. And inside the trust becomes intimacy. So there's there's vulnerability there. There's all kinds of things that transpire in a group when you are focused in on traumatic stories. And, and then I think, you know, the other element that we use is male and female. And so and yeah, it's that that adds this other element of how God created us, male and female, and to be in community. And I mean this these are just my points of view. It's like he didn't he didn't design us to be separate in separate places. And the trauma in the sexual abuse present. Then there the trauma with male and female is so healing to have both estrogen and testosterone in the same room and where, we're, you know, and to be aware of your biochemical makeup. So what is what's going on biochemically having that present. I mean, you can't you can't replicate that. And what women do to men in the realm of kindness and boldness is undoing. And what men can do for women in their brokenness, in their grief, but in their strength. And those can undo women. Like, it's so healing to be for a lot of women. It's so healing to be around a safe man.
Denisha 13:23 Yeah.
Dale 13:24 And to and to for a lot of minutes. It's really healing to be around a courageously brave woman who's kind, who speaks into their life. And it's just this, this little mixture of stuff that God created that that is so healing and so counterintuitive because we're doing the same thing that that that evil used to harm us. And by entering that with kindness, with grace and mercy, and with our team or group around us. It actually heals us. So God created us to be harmed, but he also created pathways for us to heal.
Denisha 14:01 How do you create that safe space? Because I could see I'm cheering it on because I've experienced it. But somebody who is not how how do you create that safe space? There we go. I think I finally dialed it in there.
Dale 14:13 Well, the safety is created by the depth that I'm going to share my own heartache. And if I can be raw, I can be vulnerable and I can be open. It sets at least sets a foundation for trust. Because part of this process and in this we're going to do this weekend thing coming up and it's it's going to be several weekends. And at the end of it is when we're going to, we're going to intentionally write a story and enter that story. So you've had basically, you know, six, six times of together to build trust. And then then we're going to step into the story. So I mean, one thing that we'll talk about is you're yes, you will always be honored. You know, if you say yes, I'll do that or better. But you're no. If you say no, that will be celebrated. So part of our process is about the power of choice. And and you get to choose what's safe and what's not. You described a lot of discomfort. And this is a very disruptive process. And we purposely want you to be uncomfortable because if you're not uncomfortable, you're not going to change. You're not going to move. I mean, all change is disruptive. This process is disruptive. Redemption is disruptive. And and so it's the building of the trust at the front end. But each participant is the translator of trust each each. Each participant is going to decide themselves what they want to share and how they want to share it. And again, if we get to a place in this no, your no will be celebrated. So we want people to have a voice. We want it to be a place we're not. We invite conflict. We invite people to tell the leader, hey, you just missed me. Or you just step over my feet or. And so so we can engage conflict because we are into repair. We are not into perfection. Since nobody's perfect. And this process, I think a thing that can often get lost is and we talked about condemned. Oftentimes we harm ourselves more than our abusers. And so our own self-hatred, our own contempt is a place of that we will spend time talking about. And it's it's this process is about you, repairing with you. This isn't about changing somebody else, fixing your circumstances in life. This is about treating you and the power that you have and how you care for your trauma responses, for your trauma stress that's in your body. And how do you care for your hope? And that's what this whole process is really about, because nobody's going to come into this group. That somewhere buried under or maybe on the top of it is wanting change. They want more out of life. And this is a process about more in the realm of relationship, and specifically in the realm of intimacy and love. Yeah. Yeah.
Denisha 17:07 Three things I had to actually write this down because that was so good. I want to pull out a couple of things that you just said when you talk about repair. I think that's something that many of us did not experience growing up. Right. That wasn't modeled for us, that we get in a family argument. Most of the time it gets shoved under the rug, and the next day we just magically wake up smiling, right? And we're taught to do that. We're taught to not address those things. So when you say repair, it is a very honest engagement of whatever rupture in that relationship happened. Tell us a little bit about that. And then I have a couple other things I pulled out of what you just said, because that was so rich.
Dale 17:47 And for me, a big, a big part of my life and my conversation as we go through this kind of work is is having a rhythm of repair. And that that reflects the fact that a repair is not a one time deal. And just because we have repair doesn't mean it's not gonna pop back up again because we're human beings. So I'm not shocked when we have to go into repair. I'm not actually, you know, if if I'm the offender, like, I'm not actually, you know, delighted because I still have shame responses and defensive, but I'm committed to it. And if you're committed to repair, then it brings out a whole realm of safety that I don't have to walk on eggshells. If I'm feeling too much space, then that's how I control my world. I know you're going to step in and say, what are you doing? So there's this, this other tension that comes with with this repair piece. So a rhythm of repair is is instrumental. And I view it as, as a flawed human being with a perfect god. Like my first rhythm of repair is with being God. And I love the prodigal story because that's how I envision this rhythm of repair. And, and and you said we didn't get it modeled as kids and neither did I. But I don't know that anybody out of modeled as the prodigal son got it modeled because in his deepest shame, the first thing that happens to him as he sees his father coming to him, he kisses him on the neck. The father is actually bowing down to him. But what I love about that is this grace and mercy piece that I have struggled a lot with, and still am in the process of struggling with. That is, it's a sensual place on your body, like it does so many things. To me. That's where you go with a little kid to tickle them. And and so the first thing that happens in your deepest shame is you get this kiss from your father on the neck. And I love the sandals. And I put that in his grounding like he he gives us our old shoes, gives us new shoes to ground us. He covers us with a robe and our nakedness of shame. He gives us a ring that shows that we belong. And then he brings Again to celebrate us. And so that's my view of my rhythm with God. And for me, it's also a place where I can be a real human being and tell God what I'm really thinking and feeling in all my rawness. I mean, lament is so important in this process as well. And God, in my opinion, welcomes my lament. And and oftentimes these things end in a, in a in a deep and meaningful place of awe instead of self-condemnation so that the first rhythm is with God, the second rhythm is with me. If I find myself more than my abuser, that I've got some work to do here, and how do I connect and how do I go into this place? And how do I begin to bless myself instead of curse myself? And what stories do I need to tell to help move some of these things out? And you know, we won't get into, you know, of vows and agreements and things of that nature. But there's all kinds of things that that go on, you know, in that realm, soul ties and things of that nature that happened. But it's just what this rhythm is about for me, caring for me so I can do that as an adult by regulating through breathing. I mean every regulate every day, multiple times. But I don't do that if I'm not aware. Yeah. And then my rhythm of repair with other people are that I think that so real difficult things of that is like there's two sides to every story.
Denisha 21:06 That's true how one person perceived it and how. Yes.
Dale 21:09 Yeah. And and I think if you think I'm just talking about, let's say me and Cindy, my wife, so we have a long history with each other and we have lots of hurts and things. So we have a conflict and we're triggered. So now we're not in our adult brain. So now you got two kids going at it. And so so I to be able to regulate, to realize there's two sides to every story and to realize that it's not exactly what I did or said, it's how I was experienced by that person. So I have to calm myself down. I have to be curious about the person's deal, and I have to be curious about my own judgment or defensiveness back towards that person. So that's how I view looking at these. These moments of of repair. And then I think when there's a conflict between two people I take, only one person gets to lament at a time. And so you take your time, hopefully you can stay grounded and regulated, but the person who's offended gets to share and the other person doesn't say anything back but listens, tries to connect. Even if you don't get it, even if you don't understand, you try to. And then maybe a week later you might come back and share your side of that. Like, here's how I got to this place where I said that. And it doesn't diminish this person's harm and hurt, and it will if you do it back to back. Yeah. And so it's those are the kind of things that I look at as this ongoing rhythm that happens that we want to engage. So we don't have this debris field that packs up. And it's actually in this process of repair that intimacy is grown. And so we've had a rupture. We've come back together and now we're connected. We're not disconnected. And so the rupture actually brings to connection brings us to connection. So we're not afraid of rupture because we're imperfect people. And we're not trying to be perfect. We're trying to repair our fractures or our ruptures. And that that's the rhythm. I mean, I believe love is built on a foundation of repaired rupture. And that didn't happen to me growing up. And that's why at 40 something years old, I still haven't connected to somebody because I'm still using the same systems I used when I was seven. And so to me, that's that's just so key in everything that we're doing because this is that you have to return. So it takes action for me. But this is agency. This is power. I have to return. I have to reconnect. And then repair can take place. And I have power to do all of those things. And especially in the realm of the care of myself. And now I'm not expecting Cindy, my wife, to fill this place that I harmed myself. and I can only do. I'm the only one that can do that. And that's the importance of this process and storytelling and why community is so helpful. Because you just don't get it. Like it's a process of of coming undone and and being built back up. And you know, that God and all those things and these people and it's it's a process.
Denisha 24:07 It's so counterintuitive to how the world around us works. But I would rather learn how to have a rhythm of repair in my life, even if it's not reciprocated by people who are not into story, work and doing this type of work. It just seems so counterintuitive to everything that we're seeing out there, so much even that we see in the body of Christ. We don't turn and have conversations often. We just make assumptions or judgments, and we turn from, you know, we leave our church, we go find another church. We you know, that repairing of coming back together is you're stating this. I'm like, this is my hope for all of humanity that we can do this. I mean, that's a big hope, right? This world peace. But I think that's such a big part of being able to come back and connect with other people in a really human way versus I'm right, you're wrong. That's it. And you even mentioned something in what you said about it's not about my perception of what happened. It's how the other person experienced me. Yeah, man, this world would be such a better place if we engaged in these types of rhythm of repair. Yep. Yep.
Dale 25:18 And I think that what's it what's important to remember as well as, like you can't invite somebody in a process that you've never been to, like a place you've not been to. So what's so important about doing ongoing story work is because there's redemption, there's reclaiming, there's there's taking back things that were that were trashed or stolen or robbed that I can invite you to the place that I stopped doing that. So this rhythm of repair, it gets richer and richer and richer as you do your own story work, and you learn how to have grace and mercy upon yourself as God offers to me, then I can better extend that grace and mercy to someone else. Instead, I can't just jump from God to, you know, God does this and just skip me and jumps over to you. So the awareness. Awareness is such like it's there's so much power and awareness. Like if you're not aware, it's like what choices do you have? And again being being regulated like I don't I'm not aware when I'm unregulated something else comes along or there's a dip in the day. Oh man I'm, I'm so dysregulated. And and so it's an awareness. So once I become aware, I can then begin to care for myself, re regulate and then make different choices than I did if I was just in this place moving along in life. So all of those things come into play. But yes, I think What's it? It's upside down. But then so is Jesus was upside down. And the world's business model takes you upward and people get more elite at the top, and you leave the people in the dirt. And Christ was a downward business model. And he had to remind his disciples to stay in the dirt. Even, you know, the Last Supper, the the last piece of that story is, is is Christ telling them, you're not like the Pharisees, like the elite. You're not above everybody. You're supposed to be down like a child in the least of the least, and yours to serve upward. And that's how we look in this, this, this way we engage. The group setting is the leaders start with their own brokenness. Like, I've been doing this for 20 years, and I'm a mess and I'm in a rhythm of repair, like, and I have a choice, and I'm not a victim, and I. And if you're around me long enough, we'll be in some form of repair, because I'm going to offend you. I'm going to disappoint you. I will, and you'll disappoint me. And if we have this, There's a lot of safety in that. There's a lot of hope in that. In. And when you repair it, there's just a special closeness that comes to that, because we know that there's also a force that does not want us to repair.
Denisha 27:57 Right. Yeah. That's so true. And you do this this story work you do is in very small groups.
Dale 28:04 Yes. And you have a couple of leaders in your
Denisha 28:07 in your ministry that help lead. So you may have eight people come together. And I know we have a couple of podcasts weekends coming up with your ministry and we're full. You guys, we didn't even have a chance to advertise it. I think that as humans, I think we are so hungry for the real because we've had the, you know, push it aside. Just allow our bodies to deregulate, do what we need to do just to survive. We've been in survival for so long that I really feel like a lot of people are ready for the real and to dive into those stories. So we have three podcast weekends with Dale and his team coming up this fall, and they are already full, so we don't say that out of a tease. We say that out of we're going to have more coming up, so stay tuned and we'll introduce some more in the spring as well. So small groups and I can imagine that's probably important for safety. What what else do we should we know about story work? Dale, if this is completely new to us, what else should we know about this?
Dale 29:05 It's it's incredibly disruptive.
Denisha 29:07 What does disruptive mean?
Dale 29:08 So if you are disconnected and disassociated, you're not connected to your story. You have your own rhythms. I will call it spinning. You know, we spin. And then as you start making connections and see that you do have choices to do things different ways. You know, in our in our relationships, a lot of people depend on us to be dysfunctional.
Denisha 29:29 So good. Yeah.
Dale 29:30 And so when you decide I'm not going to participate in the dysfunction, and I'm going to offer an off ramp off the drama triangle, the the victim, the Persecutor and the enabler. I. My off ramp is repair, so I'm not just going to stop. I'm going to stop for a reason. And I'm going to tell you what that reason is, because there's going to be a conflict with you and I, and I desire that we go through a repair process because I desire we're intimacy. And you may not agree with that. And so things that just spun and popped up here and there all of a sudden when you change, I mean, in my mind, I think about sticking a stick through a mix book as it's going, all the spokes go and the wheel just falls off, and it can have that kind of effect depending on your your situation and your relationships. But it's disrupted because you're going from disconnection to connection. You're going from cursing to blessing, and you're going to put some real value on your own heart and say, I, I won't, I won't do that. You'll have containment, you'll have some boundaries and say, this isn't going to I'm not okay with this anymore. You're going to have a voice in an ear and hopefully you'll be in this repair piece because you're going to screw it up too. Even though you invite people in because you're still human. But that's why it's a rhythm, because we can keep coming back. But it's that it's that piece that no one's doing. You just mentioned. Nobody even does that. So when you pop up out of the grass and start wanting to do that and start talking about things that don't make sense to anybody. Like contempt structures and shame and my relational style and blessing, not cursing, then, you know, they want you to get back to where you were.
Denisha 31:11 Yes. So what do you do and say? You have a family member, and you begin to take on this posture of wanting to repair, wanting to reconnect, wanting to own your piece of it, and wanting to share honestly your experience. Right. So if you have a family member, let's say, or a friendship, and you go and approach this, what if it is completely not reciprocated? How do you process that personally?
Dale 31:36 Well, hopefully you will process that through grieving not demanding. So we want our desires to stay alive. We do not want our desires to turn into demands. And so and there's here's hope because I want more intimacy with you, but you won't participate with me.
Denisha 31:50 And that's the grieving part. And that's the grieving part.
Dale 31:52 But that's the part that was dead before, right? I didn't seek intimacy with you because I'm spinning or I'm. I'm disconnected. I'm dull. I'm whatever you want to call it. But now that I'm connected and now I say, hey, I love you. Like. And I want to know you more. And here's something I want to talk about in this off limits. I mean, I still love you, and it changes our relationship because I need to keep my heart soft through breathing, through grieving. And one of the other processes that is helpful in this story work is I learn how to grieve. And so if you can learn how to grieve, then you can you can process a lot of trauma, stress and to keep hope alive. If you don't grieve, you will stop hoping. You will keep you will shut your heart down. So I mean, those are all great questions and they're all fluid and they're all different because different family makeups. But the biggest thing is some people won't want to do anything with it. And and some people become unsafe because of that. Some people will be like what you mentioned or, you know, that's like my mom. Like, I wanted to connect in a deeper way with her. And it was it wasn't available to me. She wouldn't make it available. And she did so many awesome things in my life. Like, she touched my family and she was a great woman. But she would not let you to her heart. And so I can hold her beauty. And I can grieve the loss that she never took her mask off. And I never got to connect to her from my young place. And we never got to talk about harm done to me because that was off limits. And simultaneously, she did some fantastic things in my life. Yeah, yeah. For my family and my kids. I mean, I just, you know, it's both.
Denisha 33:32 Anything more about story work or repairing intimacy that comes from repair that you want to share? Dale, I love tapping into the wisdom that you have.
Dale 33:42 Yeah, I think if the two words I like people to remember is grace and mercy and grace and mercy isn't about enabling or excusing. It's about judgment. Well, so yes, this work requires a lot of grace and mercy and courage. Amen.
Denisha 33:60 Yeah. You mentioned earlier about hope. I want to end on that. What you you talk about the tension of hope and the cost of hope. Right. Tell us a little bit about that. Why does this process bring so much hope.
Dale 34:14 For myself personally? Hope was was the main vein that evil came to rob, steal and destroy with me was through powerlessness. So hope was with us. I mean, I tried to refuse. I mean, I it kept popping out because I'm human, but I spent most of my life trying to kill hope because it's too dangerous. It's too much risk. And all of these things that we've been talking about that keep us shut down and separated. When we start entering those and we start repairing in our own lives. It opens the door through. It's like we are wired for love to be known, to be seen, to be cared for, and also to offer that back. And as this starts happening with you in a group setting, it opens the door to hope. And so the tension of hope is is back to the the desire and demand in back to the place that people don't have to. I mean, like you ruined all these people by going out in the valley and sitting with them. Now they don't want to do this or, you know, a conversation with you ruined their lives because.
Denisha 35:18 That was that the disruption? That's the disruption. That's part of it.
Dale 35:21 And I'm joking by saying like, and why is that? Why did they say that to you? Because they hope for more. Mhm. I don't want this dull stuff. I want some meat on it because I want more like I want more connection in our enemy. Through trauma and through other avenues. Wants to keep us disconnected. And he wants us to be flatlined. A lukewarm Christian, he doesn't want people delving into the stuff that he's done to us and taken back ground. He doesn't want that. And so there's I mean, if if you go into one of these groups, you'll you'll see and feel the, the unseen realm in resistance, in things that go through your mind and through the seemingly odd bad things happened before you get to go to one of these meetings or there's just all of this, I call it chatter. There's all this chatter that comes around when you are going back and taking background that evil has stolen. And that's what this process is about. And it's about hope. And to keep hope alive, you have to be able to to grieve. Because a lot of it's I mean, like hope is crazy because it sets you up for dashed hope. And that's what this tension is. So how do I keep that alive? How do I care for myself and my soap? How do I care for myself? And da da da da da da da da. And so that's this rhythm I'm talking about this a different rhythm of connection. Or you're either, you know, this is a rhythm of connection, but we usually live our life in a rhythm of disconnection and that's a disruption. So anytime you disrupt the disconnection, people don't always smile at you.
Denisha 37:02 Boy, that's a great point. We definitely live in disconnection from ourselves, from other people. From that authentic just realness that that we were designed to live in.
Dale 37:15 Yeah. And then go back to your story with the people that you had in the valley where you you don't connect to the same way on the mountaintop that you connect in the valley, and some of these hurt and harm. Because for for what? The biggest reason I think of because of the at the mountaintop, there's no shame. It's all celebration in the valley. Now we're getting into shame and heartache and hurt, and you are connecting there because of how your bodies respond to that. And then they taste that, that they go, I don't want, you know, the cheat meal over here, I want this. And that's exactly what you're talking about. That's the disruption.
Denisha 37:53 Yeah. That's so true. And I love what you said about hope though, that where how hope plays into that and how hope feels dangerous. I wrote that in my journal two years back in big red ink, and I said, hope feels dangerous and that that's so true. But yet there's so much beauty in hope, even though it's a little dangerous, I can see that tension. I had heard you explain that before. I really like that.
Dale 38:19 Yeah, we're. Talking about living in that tension. Yeah, yeah, we don't want it just for a little while. Like. Just like we want repair going on, like we're not. We're okay with conflict. Like. Yeah. Because we're going to we're going to repair it. We're going to get closer because of conflict.
Denisha 38:36 Yeah. Yeah, that's very true. Well, when you have when you've had an argument or something with somebody and you've worked it through, not avoided or turned from, but actually leaned towards one another and reconnected through that. Those are some of the people that are the longest friends you've had, or, you know, the people that you're closest to in your lives. Are the people that you've walked through that with? Yes. Yeah. Well, Dale, I sure appreciate all of that. You've the work that you've personally done so courageously to prepare you to help other hearts do that same type of work. So how we're going to talk in the next episode? We're going to talk about trauma being trapped in our body and how that comes in and what to do with that. But in the meantime, before the next episode, how can people find you and the work that you're doing in Tucson?
Dale 39:24 You could go to the tension of hope. Com perfect. And there's a we have a little web page, and it explains a little bit about what we do.
Denisha 39:32 And can they reach out to you through that as well.
Dale 39:35 Yeah. Okay.
Denisha 39:36 The tension of hope.
Dale 39:38 Yeah. Okay.
Denisha 39:39 All right. Well, Dale, thank you so much for everything you shared. We could have unpacked probably one sentence at a time, and we could spend all day here. I love this type of conversation. So thank you again, and I look forward to the next one.
Dale 39:52 Thank you. Appreciate it.
Denisha 39:54 Thanks for listening. I pray you found hope in today's conversation, and maybe even feel a little less alone in your story. Stay connected with us on Facebook and Instagram at Reclaimed Story. Want to learn more about living a reclaimed Life, and how you can be a part of our growing community of reclaimed years? Check out our website at Reclaimed Story. All of those links and more will be in the show notes. And if you enjoyed this inspirational podcast, be sure to subscribe, rate and review. Not only will you be the first one to know when new content comes out, but it is also a huge help in helping us reach more people to live the reclaimed life.