What About God? ~ Susan Habegger Ep. 142

What do we say when life falls apart? How do we move beyond scripted responses and engage in honest conversations? More importantly, how do we wrestle with the hard questions?

• Why did this happen to me?
• Where is God in suffering?
• Why did He allow it? 
•  Why do bad things happen to good people?

If you’ve ever asked these questions, you’re not alone.

In this episode, we have a deeply honest conversation about suffering. It’s different from our usual format—we’re sharing a webinar we hosted with Susan Habegger, titled What About God? The truths she presents are so powerful, we knew they needed to reach more people.

Susan has faced suffering head-on. She’s asked the same agonizing questions many of us have:

"God, why did this happen?"
"I believe in You, I serve You—why didn’t You take care of me?"
"What good could possibly come from this?"
"Why me?"

Through her journey, Susan has found clarity in the questions that so often feel unanswered. Today, she shares that insight with you.

The content from this webinar is drawn from her book, A New Song: A Journey Through Pain Toward Healing—the foundation of our Reclaimed Life Groups. Her message reminds us that God is not afraid of our questions—He already knows them. And asking them can lead us into a deeper, more honest relationship with Him. It can help us trust Him even in life’s most painful mysteries.

By the end of this episode, you’ll hear Susan read Where Is God in the Storm?—a powerful reflection on courage, strength, and peace in the midst of suffering.

 If you’re unfamiliar with Susan, she is the founder of Thrive Life Skills, a nonprofit dedicated to walking alongside people in hardship, offering hope and a path forward. As an author, speaker, and teacher, she has impacted lives around the world.

 We invite you to lean in, listen, and engage with this conversation. We pray it brings you comfort, clarity, and hope.

Stay connected with Susan: 

https://susanhabeggerauthor.com

You can find A New Song on Amazon.
You can find Susan online at https://thrivelifeskills.com
Be sure to follow her on

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1. Shame Off You: 10 steps to shattering shame in your life, HERE.
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Transcript

This transcript is auto-generated.

[00:00:00] Denisha: Many of us have heard the same familiar phrases, well [00:00:05] intended words meant to console, but often falling short. [00:00:10] Sometimes these words come from caring friends who are trying to ease our [00:00:15] pain. Other times they come from our own lips when we don't know what to [00:00:20] say to someone who is suffering. Nearly two years ago, when I lost [00:00:25]my husband, I heard these phrases again and again.

You know, [00:00:30] Denisha, all things work together for good. Remember, the joy of the [00:00:35]Lord is your strength. Are these things true? Yes. But were [00:00:40] they helpful in my deepest moments of pain? Not at [00:00:45] all. You see, when grief was raw, I couldn't see the good. I didn't [00:00:50] have joy, nor did I feel strong. And if I'm really honest, [00:00:55] friends, I didn't even care if good would eventually come from what I was going through.[00:01:00]

So what do we say when life falls apart? How do we [00:01:05] move beyond scripted responses and engage in honest conversations? [00:01:10] More importantly, how do we wrestle with the hard questions such as, [00:01:15] God, why did this happen to me? God, where are you in my [00:01:20]suffering? Why did you allow this to happen? Why does bad things [00:01:25] happen to good people?

If you've ever asked these questions, [00:01:30] you're not alone. In this episode, we have a deeply honest conversation [00:01:35] about suffering. It's different from our usual format. We're sharing a [00:01:40] webinar we hosted with Susan Habegger titled, What About God? The [00:01:45] truths she presents are so powerful that we knew it needed to reach more [00:01:50] people than the intimate group that joined us live.

You see, Susan has [00:01:55] face suffering head on, and she's asked the same agonizing questions. [00:02:00] Many of us have. God, why did this happen? I believe [00:02:05] you. I believe in you. I serve you. Why didn't you take care of me? [00:02:10] What good could possibly come from this? Through her journey, [00:02:15] Susan has found clarity in the questions that so often feel unanswered.[00:02:20]

And today, she shares that insight with you. The content [00:02:25] from this webinar is drawn from her book, A New Song, A Journey Through Pain [00:02:30] Toward Healing. The foundation of our Reclaimed Life groups is this [00:02:35] book. Her message reminds us that God is not afraid of our questions. In [00:02:40] fact, He already knows them. And asking them can lead us into a [00:02:45]deeper, more honest conversation with him.

And it can help us trust him [00:02:50] even in life's most painful mysteries. By the end of [00:02:55]this episode, you'll hear Susan read, where is God in the storm? [00:03:00] A powerful reflection on courage, strength, and peace in the midst of [00:03:05] suffering. If you're unfamiliar with Susan, she is the founder of Thrive Life Skills, [00:03:10] a nonprofit dedicated to walking alongside people in hardship, offering [00:03:15] hope and a path forward.

As an author, speaker, and teacher, [00:03:20] she has impacted lives around the world. So we invite you to lean [00:03:25] in, to listen, take notes. and engage with this conversation. [00:03:30] We hope that it brings you comfort, clarity, and hope. [00:03:35] Welcome to living the reclaim life podcast. I'm Denisha. We're glad you're [00:03:40] here for conversations that revive hope, inspire healing, and encourage you to [00:03:45] live a vibrant life with Christ.

So grab a cup of coffee as we chat with [00:03:50] today's guest. 

[00:03:51] Susan: We have questions and we don't always voice them out loud, [00:03:55] but they're deep inside if we are willing to acknowledge them. And so [00:04:00] I'm just going to mention a couple of them. I believe in God. I should be [00:04:05] okay, but I'm not. I trust God, but I don't understand him.

And honestly, [00:04:10] sometimes I'm not so sure I trust him. How about, I want to love God, but it feels [00:04:15] like he abandoned me. Now, maybe some of you would feel, or you've [00:04:20] heard, Oh my goodness, we should not say that kind of thing to God. But I want to reassure you that God can handle it. [00:04:25] He can handle those questions.

He can handle those thoughts. He knows that we are feeling [00:04:30] those things. And that's why he speaks to us so much about that in his word. So my hope is that this. [00:04:35] webinar will help you find a way through that underlying [00:04:40] spiritual uncertainty that lingers during suffering and healing. [00:04:45] Those gnawing accusatory questions that we're afraid to voice to God, the God [00:04:50] that we once trusted, or at least we think we should trust.

And our time together, I hope, will [00:04:55] give permission to speak honestly. And we'll provide encouragement to [00:05:00] find some plausible way, some possible, some practical [00:05:05] way through the uncertainty. We are going to move past those [00:05:10] common pacifying answers. There are many of them. I'm sure you've heard many of them, [00:05:15] and I have.

I'm just going to mention a couple tonight. How about, just put it behind you, [00:05:20] it will all be okay. That's A good one. Trust God, His [00:05:25] ways are bigger than yours. Or, in heaven, it will all make sense. You will [00:05:30] understand it then. I've heard these and many more, and I'm sure you have as well. And these [00:05:35] are often particularly to help the speaker, the one who is [00:05:40]sharing with us.

The intent is good, but they're not always as helpful as the speaker [00:05:45] intends for them to be. In fact, When we find ourselves saying it to someone [00:05:50] else or someone says it to us, the one speaking it walks away and feels better, you know, [00:05:55] because we've given some kind of encouragement, some kind of, of [00:06:00] pacifying answer that now we'll put things together.

But that's not the case, even though. [00:06:05] Each of those statements hold some portion of truth. They do not [00:06:10] give the help that we need to move forward in peace. So, I have a vision for our time [00:06:15] together. I'd like for us to put away the script and speak honestly. We want to discover a [00:06:20] plausible path through the spiritual uncertainty.

We want to embrace a [00:06:25] meaningful relationship with God in the midst of suffering. [00:06:30]We're not going to solve any big problems. Or correct [00:06:35] things that are happening in our lives or even our thought processes completely. [00:06:40] But we want to bring our concerns to a peaceful place that is ongoing. [00:06:45] That helps us in the suffering that we have and the suffering that we're having now.

And I'm [00:06:50] sorry to say there's the suffering that is still ahead of us. So on what basis do [00:06:55] I come to you with these encouragements and thoughts? Well, I have experienced [00:07:00]suffering. Discovering life that bore no similarity to the way it was before, [00:07:05] experiencing shame and despair and betrayal and [00:07:10] fear, a sense of only making it through by survival.

[00:07:15] I've lived through that experience of where is God and what is he thinking [00:07:20] and what I discovered I now share with you. It is, I think, [00:07:25] upheld by logic, and yet it's full of powerful emotion. It [00:07:30] makes sense, and yet it's full of mystery. It leaves some [00:07:35]questions unanswered, and yet gives us enough of an unshakable [00:07:40] assurance that we can move forward through our suffering and toward [00:07:45] healing.

There are hidden questions that rise up. I try to do the right [00:07:50] things, so why did this happen? I try to treat others well, so why would someone hurt [00:07:55] me in this way? I believe in God. Why didn't he take care of me? People say [00:08:00] everything happens for a purpose, but what good could possibly come from this? How [00:08:05] could God stand by and let this happen?

Why me? Why now? Why [00:08:10] this? These questions are sometimes whispered in the depth of our [00:08:15] hearts, and sometimes, if you're like me, they have been shouted at the top of [00:08:20] my lungs. And they are questions that long for answers, and [00:08:25] yet, do you find that, in reality, there's not an answer that someone could give us [00:08:30] that would really satisfy us?

It's that kind of question. So in the [00:08:35] moment when we ask the question, we don't want to be told that there's something that will [00:08:40] justify our incomprehensible suffering. Now there are those among us, [00:08:45] whether tonight or around us in the world, who choose to leave God out of the [00:08:50] conversation. And because they choose to leave him out of the conversation, it is this very [00:08:55] thing, this very question, that is a justification for that decision.

[00:09:00] So, there must be no God, they say, for what God could exist [00:09:05] alongside such suffering as mine, as someone else's, as what we see in the [00:09:10] world today. And yet that very belief leaves those [00:09:15] people in a very unsettling and solitary place, [00:09:20] because then we are left to create our own reasons for the whys. [00:09:25] And those answers become They're limited, they're confusing, they're [00:09:30] unwise, and actually leave us with more questions than answers.

[00:09:35] There is the idea, suffering is a constant unseen battle [00:09:40] of good versus evil, that life is, and so the suffering comes when for a moment [00:09:45] evil overpowers good, and if evil can overpower good, is it [00:09:50] strong enough, is good strong enough to keep the world from imploding around us, or [00:09:55] could it all just fall apart in one instant?

Could there be permanent destruction? [00:10:00] Where am I in this battle of good versus evil? Or cosmic [00:10:05] chaos, you know, is there's no rhyme or reason, is suffering part of some [00:10:10]evolutionary process, and if so, do we just accept the unfortunate and the [00:10:15] purposeless and fate, whatever might happen in my life. That's one of the [00:10:20] possibilities or explanations of suffering, or are positive and negative.

[00:10:25] trying to stay in some kind of balance. So, did I do something that [00:10:30] merited the suffering? Are we all just caught in this continual struggle [00:10:35] to tip the scales in our favor? These explanations don't feel [00:10:40] right, nor do they prove themselves when carried out to full logic. We are left with more [00:10:45] questions than answers.

So, the idea of chaotic [00:10:50] suffering without God is a hopeless plight. However, [00:10:55] even when we invite God into the conversation, we struggle to find a [00:11:00] comfortable place to settle with him in that place. Perhaps we're [00:11:05] even frustrated to have to bring this up. We think, how can we be in this [00:11:10] situation when I've spoken so highly of you?

I have spoken of [00:11:15] you to others. I have put my trust in you. I have looked to you with [00:11:20] such confidence. I don't want to accuse, but here I am. We want [00:11:25] answers, and yet our pain insists that there are no good ones. The truths that we [00:11:30] discover together will help us in our search for peace with suffering. [00:11:35] But they're never going to justify the suffering.

We don't [00:11:40] line this up on a scale and somehow try to bring pain and suffering into [00:11:45]balance with answers and spiritual reasoning. You know, we like to tidy things up, don't we? So we think, [00:11:50] okay, I suffered this way and here's the answer, the spiritual reasoning for this. [00:11:55] This conversation that we're having tonight is not to seek validation for the evil [00:12:00] or the injustice or the abuse.

That's not what we're trying to do. [00:12:05] The why questions are not expecting an answer that balances the [00:12:10] scale. That scale cannot be balanced from a human perspective. Rather, the [00:12:15] truths that we are seeking will help us to come to peace with [00:12:20] our suffering, and perhaps even with the God who [00:12:25] is with us in that suffering.

Ultimately, my hope is that the truths we [00:12:30] discover about suffering might calm this unsettling feeling [00:12:35] that holds us back from moving forward in healing, [00:12:40] but also from a precious and intimate relationship. [00:12:45] with this God who loves us and wants a close [00:12:50]relationship with us. I had one woman who was 93 years old when [00:12:55] she took the workshop of a new song and she shared with me afterwards that [00:13:00] for the first time she was willing to trust [00:13:05] and have this relationship.

With Jesus and the way that she had always [00:13:10] dreamed of having it because she was able to put some things into perspective [00:13:15] and take them off the scale where she was trying to weigh them and bring them into [00:13:20] balance. And so we want that precious relationship. We're going to approach this challenge through [00:13:25] questions, of course.

So, why is there suffering? Why did suffering happen to me? [00:13:30] Where is God in the suffering? And why did God allow this to happen? [00:13:35] So let's begin with why is there suffering? For this discussion, we have to go way back [00:13:40] to the beginning, even before I was born, way back. And my grandchildren think I'm quite old, but [00:13:45] we go way back.

The beginning of the story of creation. God created a beautiful world, He [00:13:50] declared that it was good, He created humanity in His image, and put [00:13:55] them in this wonderful place to live, and in particular, the Garden of Eden. How can we even [00:14:00] imagine what it was like? I suppose sometimes I think of it mostly for [00:14:05] the things that weren't there.

There were no weeds in the garden. There was no illness, no wars, no [00:14:10] pain, no suffering, no abuse. Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, [00:14:15] were blessed in this peaceful and beautiful place. And it was a good [00:14:20] and a right time. And then there was an event that changed everything. [00:14:25] Because God gave some instructions.

He said, you may eat from any [00:14:30] tree, except do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good [00:14:35] and evil, because it's going to bring death. I will tell you [00:14:40] that it has only been some years now that I really read this carefully, [00:14:45] the description of this tree, from the tree of the knowledge of good and [00:14:50] evil.

and evil. We need to understand that God [00:14:55] always has good reason for his instructions and his guidance. He doesn't just do [00:15:00] something to see if we'll obey. It's most often to protect us, or to prepare us, [00:15:05] or to provide for us. By his instructions to not eat from this [00:15:10] tree, God was protecting Adam and Eve from the consequences [00:15:15] of that tree's fruit.

Now, it's not that the fruit from the tree was bad, it's [00:15:20] just that Adam and Eve weren't ready for it. They were experiencing good in [00:15:25] every possible way, but Adam and Eve were not ready for the [00:15:30] knowledge of evil. God was also protecting us, you and me, and [00:15:35] his entire creation from the destructive consequences that were going to come [00:15:40] from The knowledge of evil that would come into the world at this point.[00:15:45]

We won't go into all the whys and hows, but we'll cut straight to the information. Both [00:15:50] Adam and Eve ate of the fruit. They ate from the forbidden tree. They disobeyed the [00:15:55] instructions that God had given to protect them. And disobedience brings consequences. [00:16:00] And this is where we enter the story. That event was so pivotal that the [00:16:05] consequences affected everyone and everything from that point forward.

[00:16:10] For at that point, at that moment, death entered the world. At that [00:16:15] moment, illness and pain and war and betrayal and [00:16:20] abuse. All of those things. Enter the world. Adam and Eve were living with the [00:16:25] knowledge of good, and that was good, but this tree opened the door to the knowledge of evil [00:16:30] as well. Adam and Eve's disobedience led to devastating consequences.[00:16:35]

The knowledge of evil came upon all of humanity. And now, because of [00:16:40] that one event, The world is broken. There's physical [00:16:45] illness and disease. There are wars, there are evil deeds, there are natural disasters. We [00:16:50] see the evidence of death in many places, from our aging process to the [00:16:55] evil that attempts to overshadow all of the beauty that God has put in [00:17:00] place.

It makes sense. We see it all around us. Why is there suffering in this world? There is [00:17:05]suffering because this world is broken. But it gets more personal than that, doesn't it? [00:17:10] The world's brokenness becomes our own experience. [00:17:15] We experience the physical illness and disease. We experience war. We experience [00:17:20] betrayal.

We experience abuse. We experience things that we never [00:17:25] dreamed would come into our life. We experience the knowledge of [00:17:30] evil. Now at this point we would stop again and talk together. Consider this [00:17:35] broken world and the knowledge of evil. We have personally [00:17:40] and think about what evidence of this brokenness you [00:17:45] see in your own life.

What evidence has touched you or your family? [00:17:50] It's important. Can I say this? It's important not to see suffering as the villain, [00:17:55] not to see suffering as the unexpected villain, but to see suffering as a [00:18:00] part of our world because our world is broken. We want that [00:18:05] visual and that reality of suffering. So, suffering is in this world because the [00:18:10] world is broken.

The knowledge of that good and that evil has come upon [00:18:15] us. And we feel it. We experience it. We know it. We [00:18:20] feel it inside and we feel it overshadowing us. So, why did suffering happen [00:18:25] to me? Why me? The world is broken and so suffering is here. There's no going back. We [00:18:30] see it every day. But why, why me? Why me?

Well, imagine [00:18:35] walking down a road, and the road is pristine and clean. There's no dust and no mud. [00:18:40] You can walk freely, and you're not going to get your shoes dirty. No problems. And then the [00:18:45] road begins to change. Dust appears, soon there are potholes. First, they're [00:18:50] small. You can walk around them and kind of dodge them by slightly changing your direction.

Then the holes [00:18:55] get wider and deeper and it gets muddier. that a car drives by, hits one of the potholes, [00:19:00] and sprays you with muddy water. The dirt and the muck are now on you. The [00:19:05] road is in such poor condition that there's no way that you can dodge its effects [00:19:10]any longer. And when you arrive at your destination, people look at you and say, [00:19:15] What happened to you?

Why do you look that way? You might respond, Well, [00:19:20] because there was no way to avoid it. The mud and the dust in the potholes We're [00:19:25] part of the road I had to travel and the same is true for life pain, evil, illness, [00:19:30] disasters. All of these things are part of life. There's no way to avoid them [00:19:35] completely. The brokenness of suffering are part of the road we must travel.

This insight is [00:19:40] helpful and it actually is necessary because if we don't come to a place [00:19:45] that we see suffering as part of the road we travel, then we will [00:19:50] constantly be asking, why me? Why me? There are some who will tell you if [00:19:55] you just do the right thing, then you will be able to dodge the suffering.

You'll be able to get [00:20:00] around it. That's not true. God tells us often to expect suffering. He [00:20:05] says, don't be surprised by the ordeals that are going to come upon you. In [00:20:10] fact, Jesus lived a perfect life and he did not avoid suffering. In fact, it's part [00:20:15] of his example to us of the road that we would travel along with him.[00:20:20]

Some people say that if we just have enough faith, we will be able to dodge [00:20:25] the suffering. I don't find this anywhere in God's teaching. In [00:20:30] fact, God records stories of his own dear people, those who are [00:20:35] closest to him. We're often the ones who suffer the most. So for now, answering the [00:20:40] question of why suffering is quite straightforward or why it happens to us is quite straightforward.[00:20:45]

We experience suffering because we live in this world. We experience suffering [00:20:50] because it is part of the road that we must travel. And you say, [00:20:55] no, not that. Am I just another person on the muddy road? It's [00:21:00] not personal enough. We're going to get to the personal in just a little bit, but for now. We [00:21:05] want to set aside the why me and understand that the world is broken.

We [00:21:10] now have knowledge of good and evil, and we're going to be touched by suffering simply [00:21:15] because we are here. Our next question is, where is God in the suffering? [00:21:20] Now when I talk about God in this way, I want to be clear that I'm [00:21:25] talking about God, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, together [00:21:30] in purpose, together in intention, together in [00:21:35]relationship with us.

And so, I'm not talking about just [00:21:40] God way out there. I'm talking about the God that we think of as, as Jesus close to us, the God that [00:21:45] we think of as the Holy Spirit within us and God the Father. So all together, [00:21:50] where is God in the suffering? So far we've learned that there's [00:21:55] suffering because this world is broken, and we experience suffering because we live in this world.[00:22:00]

But if suffering is in this world, and I must experience it, then where is God in that [00:22:05] suffering? So, one of the best ways to understand The [00:22:10] possibilities of what someone can do is to know some of their [00:22:15] skills and their characteristics and their attributes. Now, we often [00:22:20]define God by what we want him to be, or.

We base our [00:22:25] definitions on cultural or religious traditions, changing philosophies even, or[00:22:30] our own desires or fears. However, when we consider who God is, [00:22:35] it would be wise for us to consider what he says about himself and what he [00:22:40] has given as a foundation about himself since the beginning [00:22:45] of time. It is what we believe about who God is that will [00:22:50] drive our understanding and our connection [00:22:55] to who he can be to us in suffering.

Our conclusions come [00:23:00] from what we think about God. A person who chooses to believe that there is no [00:23:05] God Or that he is not involved with us in our suffering. We'll [00:23:10] approach suffering and pain much differently than someone [00:23:15] who considers that God as a trustworthy companion on this journey. [00:23:20] So let's see what he says about himself.

First of all, we're going to look at [00:23:25] three and then take a little sidetrack and come back to the fourth one. So the first one [00:23:30] is that God is all knowing and omniscient. These things that we're talking about [00:23:35] God, these characteristics, are important to our understanding of where he is in this [00:23:40] suffering.

That's why we're talking about these particular characteristics. So, God is [00:23:45] all knowing or omniscient. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. [00:23:50] Everything is uncovered and laid bare to the eyes of him to whom all give account. [00:23:55] I love the way God in, Many situations, when he gives us [00:24:00] his truth, he leaves no doubt.

He doesn't say, well, there are some things in [00:24:05] creation or, you know, there are some things that are uncovered. He says nothing is [00:24:10] hidden. Everything is uncovered and laid bare and all give account for what [00:24:15] is happening in this creation. So God knows all things. [00:24:20]Nothing takes place outside of his knowledge.

And this includes the suffering in my [00:24:25] life and in your life. No one can do anything to you that [00:24:30] God does not know about. So we cannot say God [00:24:35] did not know this could or would happen. These are hard truths, but [00:24:40] they're true. The next one is God is all present. He's omnipresent. [00:24:45] Am I only a God nearby and not a God far away?

Who can hide in secret [00:24:50] places? Do I not fill heaven and earth? God is present [00:24:55]everywhere. There is no tiny corner where God cannot be. Therefore, [00:25:00] God is present in our suffering. He is not hiding. He is not [00:25:05] preoccupied. We cannot say God was not present when the suffering took [00:25:10] place. The third characteristic about God that is important is that God is all [00:25:15] powerful.

He's omnipotent. God does what he pleases with the powers of [00:25:20] heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him, What have you done? [00:25:25] God does not answer to anyone. God is all powerful. All power [00:25:30] belongs to him. The person who harms us does not have more power than God. [00:25:35] Even all nature bows to his power and authority.

We cannot [00:25:40] say God was powerless against my suffering. These were difficult [00:25:45] for me to grasp and hold on to at a particular point in my life. All knowing, [00:25:50] all present, all powerful. Let's stop for a minute. before we visit the [00:25:55] fourth aspect of who he is. And think about these three characteristics. [00:26:00] Where is God in the suffering?

He's not ignorant. He's not unaware or [00:26:05] distracted. He's not far off. He's not powerless with his hands tied. So if we [00:26:10] take all that we know to be true about God, where is God in my suffering? There's [00:26:15] only one answer. God is present with me in my suffering. [00:26:20] No. Maybe some of you are saying no. [00:26:25] Somehow we feel very comfortable bringing Jesus.

I think we think in [00:26:30] particular of Jesus to be with us in our healing as we're moving forward, as he [00:26:35] draws us forward. We're very comfortable with that. But we push back at the [00:26:40]attempt to include him in the actual event of suffering, in the [00:26:45] experience of suffering. We don't want him in that place of confusion.

There's a risk of feeling angry [00:26:50] or bitter against him. There is the danger of feeling that he betrays us. We [00:26:55] don't know what to do with him, standing there in the presence of evil and pain. [00:27:00] Please stay with me. We must follow the path honestly if we're [00:27:05] going to make sense of this conversation in a way that comes out in truth and [00:27:10] reality.

A kind of truth that can uphold us in that devastating [00:27:15] pressure of suffering and the desperate need to come to peace with it. We can't cling to nice [00:27:20] assurances. We need answers that make sense. So in that problem that we have [00:27:25] with God being with us in our suffering, we come up with some theories that kind of [00:27:30] explain it away.

So we're going to talk about two of those. We cling to the theory that chaos [00:27:35] and random events have brought us into this place of suffering. Think [00:27:40] about the potholes in the road. So there are times when my life gets caught up in the chaos and [00:27:45] random things happen. It's a bit like being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So the [00:27:50] suffering I experience is at the whim of chaos. God is here. He's got his hand [00:27:55] over the world in general. But, in reality, in our life, chaos [00:28:00] and random events are running the show. The truth is, his [00:28:05] eyes saw your unformed body. All the days ordained for you were written in his book [00:28:10] before one of them came to be.

It certainly appears that the world is in [00:28:15] chaos. However, even in the midst of apparent chaos, God's [00:28:20] authority is in place. Think back to what we know about him. He's all knowing, all present, and [00:28:25] all powerful. So, if chaos rules. Then God is not God. And if God [00:28:30] is God, then the chaos has boundaries. God assures us that his [00:28:35] eyes are on us and that our days are ordained personally for [00:28:40] each one of us, before one of them came to be.

There's another theory. [00:28:45] God gives humankind free will. So God allows people to choose whether to do [00:28:50] right or wrong, even whether to do good or evil. My pain is only the result [00:28:55] of another person's free will, used unwisely. The term free will is a [00:29:00] little, a little vague and often misused. Do we have total free will?

Probably not. I'm [00:29:05] limited by my mental capabilities and my physical capabilities, among other things. [00:29:10] But it is more accurate to say that God gives us the privilege and the accountability [00:29:15] of decision making. He does not treat us like puppets. He does not manipulate us. He [00:29:20] does not say, This is, this is exactly the way you will turn and move on [00:29:25] this particular day.

Although God gives us the privilege of choice, however, [00:29:30] he's not at the mercy of the will of man. And when you read [00:29:35] scripture carefully and watch for it, you see this. Left to our total free [00:29:40] will, we would have destroyed ourselves by now. But you watch through scripture as God pops in [00:29:45] and does this and does this that protects us.

We might feel in a [00:29:50] moment. That we are unable to overpower a person who is [00:29:55]stronger than we are or in greater authority than we are. greater age than we [00:30:00] are for some reason has power over us. We might even feel that we're at the [00:30:05] mercy of a physical illness or disease or circumstances. But ultimately, [00:30:10] in the light of the description of God, all knowing, all present, all [00:30:15] powerful, this truth remains.

Everything that happens in my life has [00:30:20] passed through my father's all hands. This is [00:30:25] true, even when I feel at the mercy of another person's disease. [00:30:30] influence. Think about Job for a moment. The evil one had to actually go to [00:30:35] God and request permission to inflict suffering on Job. [00:30:40] God had to set and remove the boundaries.

And the same is true in our [00:30:45] life. God does not create evil. Remember where evil came from and how it [00:30:50] entered into our world. But evil does submit to him [00:30:55] and cannot step over his boundaries. I assure you that you are not [00:31:00] at the mercy of man's will. God says, do not fear for I am your God. [00:31:05] I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

So where does this leave [00:31:10] us in our why question? Well, there is suffering because the world is broken. [00:31:15] We experience suffering because it is part of the path we travel. God is with us in [00:31:20] our suffering, being all knowing, all present, and all powerful. We are not at the mercy of [00:31:25] chaos, and we are not at the mercy of man's will.

God is with me in [00:31:30] my suffering. This is such an amazing mystery. Beautiful, [00:31:35]profound, and mind stretching. I love the word mystery, and it has become more and more a [00:31:40]part of my spiritual journey over the past years. Spiritual mysteries are those [00:31:45] concepts that we can't come up with a one two three explanation [00:31:50] for.

They are incomprehensible and wonderful aspects of God that we [00:31:55] simply embrace. That we simply wrap our arms around and hold [00:32:00] close because this is what he has said to us. And this is who he has said he [00:32:05] is to us. And it's a gift that goes beyond anything we can know in [00:32:10] any other person. Can we understand it?

Can we explain it? No, we can't. Or [00:32:15] at least I cannot. Our conversation about God and our [00:32:20] suffering must include mystery. God's desire is that I [00:32:25] embrace his presence in my journey. All of it. His [00:32:30] desire is also that I embrace his presence in my suffering. Because it's [00:32:35] only then that I can accept that there is purpose in my [00:32:40] suffering.

And so the personal questions come, in what ways have I [00:32:45] reasoned away my suffering to the general chaos of the world? In what ways have [00:32:50] I reasoned away my suffering to the will of others? How can I open my [00:32:55] heart and my mind to the presence of God in my suffering? [00:33:00] God is present with us in our suffering.

And there follows another [00:33:05] why. So if God knows about our suffering, and he's with us in our suffering, and is more [00:33:10] powerful than our suffering, then why, oh why, did he not stop it? [00:33:15] Why did God allow this to happen? This is the perfect time to think about the [00:33:20]fourth characteristic of this one who is on the journey with us.

God the Father, God [00:33:25] the Son, God the Holy Spirit, Father, Jesus. The Holy Spirit who lives within [00:33:30] us, and this is that he is good God. You are good. And [00:33:35] what you do is good. God wants us to come to a place [00:33:40] where we accept his goodness in a personal way. And [00:33:45] this can be hard because his goodness to us doesn't always feel [00:33:50] good.

So people will say sometimes God isn't good because [00:33:55] Such and such. The fact is, we have to have the [00:34:00] reality of who God is so ingrained within our mind and our heart [00:34:05] and our very soul, that the statement that comes is, God is [00:34:10] good, even in this. He is not judged. His goodness is not [00:34:15] judged by what he does.

His goodness is not changed by what he does. [00:34:20] His goodness is not warped in some way by what he does. [00:34:25] He is good. Remember that he knows all, [00:34:30] including our thoughts and our doubts and our fears of that suffering to come. [00:34:35] And so listen to what he tells us. He says, as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are [00:34:40] my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Now, does this mean he's putting us [00:34:45] down and that he looks at our suffering with disdain? And he says, you just don't understand why [00:34:50] I've got this under control. I'm a lot higher than you know. He's drawing us [00:34:55] in, like we draw in a small child and say, Honey, I [00:35:00]understand things you don't understand yet. I have thoughts that you can't think and if [00:35:05] I tried to explain it to you, it wouldn't make sense.

The words wouldn't even [00:35:10] be in your language. And so all I can tell you is that I am [00:35:15] your God who knows all and sees all and is all powerful and [00:35:20] is good and I love you beyond reason. And so I embrace you and I [00:35:25] want you to embrace me and accept my goodness in a personal way. God [00:35:30] is telling us that there is so much more to our story than [00:35:35] anything we could ever imagine.

And this may sound harsh, but our [00:35:40] life is not all about what is happening here on this earth [00:35:45] in this short span of time. When you read the book, and if you've heard other [00:35:50]teaching that I've done, you know, we think of it as our life from the crib, the bassinet, when we're born [00:35:55] to the gravestone. That's not our life.

Our life began way [00:36:00] beyond the moment when our parents saw us and we laid in that crib and our life goes on [00:36:05] way beyond the gravestone. This is a blip. Now it's the only blip we know for this moment [00:36:10] so it's pretty important to us, but it is. Only a small portion. [00:36:15] And God is saying, I live in eternity. I live where there is no time.[00:36:20]

I see you from the moment you were a child to when you pass from this earth into [00:36:25] eternity. And so there are things that I know about how you're going to come close to me. [00:36:30] That you're not going to understand. And this is my goodness, because you see [00:36:35] it is his goodness that brings us close to him. And that beat, [00:36:40] how could it be that it is his goodness?

that allowed certain things into [00:36:45] my life that I now know him in a way I never would have known him if by everyone [00:36:50] else's account he would have been good to Susan and protected her from those things. But I [00:36:55] never would have known him in this way. Remember Joseph's story? That [00:37:00] he had all these things happening to him.

The hatred of his brothers, being sold by his brothers, [00:37:05] being taken into the palace and then, then falsely accused and then forgotten. [00:37:10] All of these things. And years later. When he was reunited with his brothers, [00:37:15] he says to them, what you did was wrong. You intended to harm me. [00:37:20] God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.

[00:37:25] That was a brilliant example of how God used it in his [00:37:30] life and even in the lives of others. But for us, we may never know what God [00:37:35] accomplished through our suffering for others. If it brings us [00:37:40] into a close relationship with him and helps us to know him in a way we've not known him before, [00:37:45] then it has done such good and we can embrace [00:37:50] that.

Do you see the four characteristics? We see God saw [00:37:55] Joseph's suffering, God was present with him, he's omnipresent, God had power over those [00:38:00] who caused Joseph's suffering, and God in his goodness had also intention. This [00:38:05] brings us to a pivotal point in our understanding and perspective of suffering. You can know [00:38:10] with certainty that God is all in your life.

In such a [00:38:15] way that he will not allow the actions of others to change his plan for [00:38:20]you. No one is more powerful than God. No one can sneak in and change God's [00:38:25] plan for you while he's not looking. No one can fight him for control of your life and win. [00:38:30] And even though people make decisions that do impact your life in some way, [00:38:35] It is within his boundaries.

So how do we respond when the [00:38:40] circumstances seem unjust and unfair? We must embrace the [00:38:45] fact that our suffering has purpose. For me, this [00:38:50] comes down to a very visual perspective of suffering. We want [00:38:55] to gain a new perspective. How we look at this life. And [00:39:00] so I would ask you for this next time, portion of time to just set aside your own [00:39:05]crisis for a moment.

And let's just walk together through this visual [00:39:10] expression of suffering in our lives. And look at these images [00:39:15] and experience the expectations that we have and consider [00:39:20] the reality as we look at how suffering impacts our life. [00:39:25] So let's just begin with our expectations. So many of us tend [00:39:30] to look at life's journey in this way.

Some green grass, some blue sky, [00:39:35] a few clouds, but nothing too overwhelming. Uh, shade available as needed, and [00:39:40] there's no immediate crisis in the moment, and we can pretty much [00:39:45] maintain this image of life. That's the visual we have, and a little bit of our [00:39:50]expectation, if we're really honest. But then, Moments of crisis followed [00:39:55] by suffering enter the picture and we desperately respond by attempting [00:40:00] to put the former image back in place so that we can be free to [00:40:05] move forward with life as it should be.

We even make these comments [00:40:10] or someone will make that statement, you know, just set that aside so that you can get back to life the way that [00:40:15] is, or I want to get through this suffering. I want to go through this illness so that I can get back to life the [00:40:20] way that is supposed to be because we have this visual.

Okay, but here, here we [00:40:25] are. How do we explain the appearance of such unwelcome disruptions? [00:40:30] If we follow our previous conclusion that God has accountability in these events, [00:40:35] we are likely a bit perturbed. How could he allow these moments to [00:40:40]disturb a previously beautiful image? Why would he do that? Is he uncaring?

[00:40:45] Is he cruel? Is he unaware? Is he weak against evil? I thought he loved us [00:40:50] and was looking out for us. And so as the question was mentioned earlier, the question is there, [00:40:55] how could he allow the suffering? The [00:41:00] problem is that our image is skewed. We have been building a foundation of our reasoning [00:41:05] on an incorrect visual.

You see, as related to [00:41:10] suffering and our relationship to it in this world, the true image of our journey [00:41:15] in this world of suffering is this, the road is muddy and full of [00:41:20] potholes. Moments of crisis are all around us. [00:41:25] Opportunities for suffering abound. Evil is active, seeking ways to [00:41:30] undo us. It's there.

If we could see tomorrow morning when you walk [00:41:35] out your door, if you could see the potential for harm to you, [00:41:40] physically, emotionally, spiritually, it would be frightening for us. This is what we [00:41:45] would see. Most of these realities are unseen and unfelt and unrecognized. [00:41:50] But the truth is, they are there. So the reality is not that our lives look [00:41:55] like green grass and blue sky until God unthinkingly and without reason [00:42:00] allows moments of crisis to enter.

The reality is that we are surrounded by moments [00:42:05] of crisis from the very beginning because the world is broken and has been open to the [00:42:10] knowledge and the influence of evil, and we are living in the midst of it. [00:42:15] We need someone looking out for us, and our Jesus, our [00:42:20]ruler of all, who sees all, who knows all, who is all [00:42:25] powerful, this ruler of all sees all potential suffering that is part of the [00:42:30] brokenness of our world.

And as that brokenness becomes more personal, [00:42:35] he becomes more and more involved. Mitigating, protecting, being attentive to [00:42:40] every crisis that either hovers around you or threatens you from afar. [00:42:45] And in his power. Perfect knowledge of you and in his [00:42:50]profound awareness of good. He allows only particular [00:42:55] moments of crisis to touch your life.

When one crisis touches your life, there are [00:43:00] many others from which he protects you. The suffering that does touch you is not [00:43:05] at the whim of the chaos of this world. And it's not at the will of [00:43:10] others. It is filtered through his all loving hands. And so [00:43:15] there is one, there is this ruler of all who is [00:43:20] looking out for you on this treacherous journey.

And when [00:43:25] the suffering connects, the Good Shepherd comes [00:43:30] and is with you in that moment with you. What does that mean for [00:43:35] us? It means that he increases our strength, both physical and emotional, beyond what [00:43:40] we think we have. Perhaps you have said this as I have, as you look back on some of these [00:43:45] experiences.

How did I do it? How am I still standing? I cannot imagine. [00:43:50] It's because our Good Shepherd added his strength so that we could accomplish the tasks, [00:43:55] so that we could move through, so that we could find a way to endure [00:44:00] and process through that suffering. It means that he encourages us, [00:44:05] sometimes through other people and sometimes through our awareness of his presence.

It means that he gives [00:44:10] discernment so that we know decisions to make. It means that whether he's walking [00:44:15] alongside or whether he's carrying you, at every moment, his eyes and his [00:44:20] heart are for you. These images speak clearly. The world [00:44:25] is broken. Suffering and evil abound. But you are [00:44:30] not at the mercy of chaos.

You are not at the mercy of random events. You are [00:44:35] not at the mercy of other people's evil wills. You are not. Rather, [00:44:40] God protects you from much suffering. Things you never know about. [00:44:45] Maybe some things that he allows you to see. God filters what will be allowed to touch your [00:44:50] life. And God stands with you.

in that suffering and draws the [00:44:55] boundaries to determine even to what extent that suffering will [00:45:00] touch you. So what truth becomes clear to us? There is no suffering where [00:45:05]God is not present. There's none. With God, there is no suffering [00:45:10] without purpose. With God, there is no suffering that can destroy [00:45:15] us.

With God, there is always the potential for healing. Now, [00:45:20] these may be truths that we know about God. in our minds, but these [00:45:25] truths will not impact our healing until we embrace them into our emotions and [00:45:30] into our heart. It might not happen all at once. One great decision, but [00:45:35] our God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is patient, remaining [00:45:40] close with persistent words of assuring.

These words were real in my [00:45:45] mind at a point in time, but in the midst of my pain and my suffering, they became real [00:45:50] in my soul, in my spirit. And even now, there are [00:45:55]times when past events sweep over me, one after another, and I remember the devastating [00:46:00]events. Can I lift my gaze to the heavens and I say, was [00:46:05] this really necessary?

Is it really necessary? And the simple answer comes, [00:46:10] I am all. I am good. There has been purpose in your suffering. So [00:46:15] if we are to move forward through healing, how do we do so with sure footing? [00:46:20] We can choose to give ourselves to the whim of chaos. For the will of [00:46:25] others, or we can choose to give ourselves into the hands of a God who [00:46:30] is all and good.

I have found unspeakable surety, [00:46:35] courage and strength and peace by including my God in my journey of [00:46:40] healing. Does it include mystery? Yes. Should I not expect that from someone [00:46:45] who is truly God for one thing? Accepting God into my journey of [00:46:50] suffering gives me someone real to talk to, to ask my questions, to [00:46:55] share my true feelings.

Because if I keep God out here, where I [00:47:00] had him before, then I wasn't honest with him most of the time. I put on a bit of a front [00:47:05] with him, said what I knew he wanted me to say, and said about him what others [00:47:10] expected me to say. But now that I've led him into my suffering with me, I can speak [00:47:15] clearly and honestly.

So I want you to know that coming to peace with [00:47:20] this is not answering all the questions. It's finding a safe place to [00:47:25] land with those concerns that trouble us and bubble up inside. It's not [00:47:30] foolishly or naively pacifying ourselves with some spiritual answers [00:47:35] or statements. It's discovering the truth upon which all other [00:47:40] logic stands, finding a place that will hold up.

under everything that [00:47:45] comes against us. How this plays out in our lives, how this [00:47:50]becomes real and is interwoven into the fabric of [00:47:55] our lives day in and day out, that's another webinar. But we are coming to this [00:48:00] place of comprehension and understanding. So where is God in the [00:48:05] storm? I would like for you to just quietly listen.

Where is God in the [00:48:10] storm? Did God know? Did he allow? Is it part of his plan [00:48:15] for me? As I consider all the truths about my God and [00:48:20] thoughtfully apply them to my life, I come to a compelling conclusion. [00:48:25] My God is aware of the storm of suffering on the horizon. [00:48:30] He sees. He knows. My God is powerful enough to prevent [00:48:35] it or to steer me in another direction.

And often, he does just that. [00:48:40] There are other times, however, that he takes my hand and, full of [00:48:45] loving intention, says, Come, child. We are going to walk into that storm. [00:48:50] But I'm coming with you, and I will not leave your side. I will cover you with my [00:48:55] feathers of protection, and under my wings, you will find refuge.

I will whisper to the [00:49:00] right or to the left, Trust my purpose for you. Trust my goodness. [00:49:05] Trust my love for you. Trust me. This dearest father [00:49:10] has carefully and intentionally embraced us into [00:49:15] his arms of care and protection. We often look to the [00:49:20] sky with our questions, when in reality, God is with us [00:49:25] right down here on the ground.

We don't have to look up there and ask [00:49:30] why. We can look right beside us. And there he is. God is with us. [00:49:35] This is not our fear. This is our unshakable assurance. [00:49:40] So we need some time to think and to ponder, to breathe deeply, and then think [00:49:45] about these truths and take them with you. God was with you in your suffering.[00:49:50]

God is with you today, and God will be with you [00:49:55] in the future, whatever comes. 

[00:49:57] Denisha: I hope Susan's words have resonated with [00:50:00] you as deeply as they did with me. It's okay to have questions. It's [00:50:05] okay to bring them to God. It's okay to wrestle with the mysteries of [00:50:10] suffering. But as Susan reminded us, there is no suffering where God is not [00:50:15] present with God.

Suffering is never without purpose [00:50:20] with God. Suffering will not destroy us. And with God, [00:50:25] there is always the possibility of healing. May these truths give you [00:50:30] courage, strength, and peace as you walk your own journey today. [00:50:35] Thanks for listening. I pray you found hope in today's conversation and [00:50:40] maybe even feel a little less alone in your story.

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