A Chat Between Survivors ~ Claire Culwell Ep. 12

Claire Culwell is a twin abortion survivor. Her mom was pregnant with her and her twin and chose to have an abortion. The abortion took the life of her twin, yet she survived. 

 Recently, I had the privilege of being interviewed by Claire Culwell on her podcast, “Called to be bold.” Both Claire and I are abortion survivors. Hear more of each of our stories in this episode. 

Claire shares a hopeful message of forgiveness, redemption, and truth, exposing the humanity of the unborn baby and how abortion hurts women.

​She is an internationally known pro-life speaker and soon-to-be author. She has been featured on Fox News, Focus On The Family, and many other media outlets. Claire lives in Austin, TX with her family.

You can find Claire's brand new book, "Survivor"  HERE
Claire's podcast, "Called To Be Bold" can be found HERE
Check out her website www.claireculwell.com
If you are an abortion survivor, you are not alone. Visit https://abortionsurvivors.org to connect with other survivors.
View the Faces of Choice Campaign at https://facesofchoice.org

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Transcript

Denisha  (2s):
Welcome to the Living the Reclaimed Life podcast. I'm Denisha. We're glad you're here for conversations that revive hope, inspire healing and encourage you to live a vibrant life with Christ. I had the privilege of being interviewed by Claire Culwell on her podcast Called To Be Bold. And before I share the interview, I want to tell you a little about Claire. Claire is a twin abortion survivor. What that means is Her mom was pregnant with her and her twin and chose to have an abortion. The abortion took the life of her twin. Yet she survived. Claire was then adopted into a loving family and says that finding out that she survived an abortion never changed who she knew she was wanted, chosen, and loved.

Denisha  (50s):
Claire met her birth mother in 2009, who told her about her survival. Claire shares a hopeful message of forgiveness, redemption, and truth. Exposing the humanity of the unborn baby and how abortion hurts women. She is an internationally known pro-life speaker and author. She's been featured on Fox News, Focus On The Family, and many other media outlets. Claire has recently written a book called Survivor, where she shares her story and friends. It is hot off the press. It is available on Amazon, and you can find the link to the book in the show notes. You can also find her website and several other fantastic organizations that she and I talk about in this episode, including the Abortion Survivors Network, which is so close to our hearts, be sure to check out the show notes. We hope that you enjoy our conversation today.

Claire (1m 42s):
Welcome to Called, To Be Bold with Claire Culwell. I'm Claire, your host. Thank you so much for joining us today. This is a mini-series called Meet Survivors that I am doing leading up to the release of my book called Survivor. That releases two book stores on April 27th. I'm really excited about that, but I am even more excited today that I get to introduce you to another abortion survivor. If you haven't been listening, I would be sure to go back and listen to the three episodes before this of this mini-series called meet Survivors, where I highlight other abortion survivors like me, who I have met and become friends with over the past really couple years.

Claire  (2m 33s):
And so it's been really encouraging to hear from them. And especially for me to know that I'm not alone, that there are people who have experienced what I've experienced, but also for you as a listener, a to be able to humanize that end born baby and see that they're not just Claire Culwell and Giana Jessen, and Melissa Ohden out there. But there are other survivors who share a similar story who an abortion procedure, and that there are stories matter just as much as mine, just as much as yours. So today, I'm so excited to introduce you all to Denisha Workizer. She is the founder of Reclaimed Story, which is a ministry for women to bring hope and healing to their story, to what they have experienced and their past to those circumstances.

Claire (3m 25s):
And so I'm excited for you all to hear from her. Welcome. Denisha, thanks so much for joining us.

Denisha  (3m 30s):
Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Claire (3m 34s):
Denisha, tell us a little bit about you.

Denisha  (3m 38s):
Oh, well, I live in Tucson, Arizona, and the desert, and it's really beautiful if you've never seen the desert. I live in Tucson with my husband and three kids are. We have this year; we have  book ind kids. So we have a freshman as a senior and then a nine-year-old. So it's been a crazy year for them, but yeah, we have three kids live in Tucson. And I just want to say thank you so much, Claire, for all your doing your such a trailblazer along with Melissa and Giana. And it's just amazing to get to know you, and you'll be a part of; all of that is sort of coming out during this time.

Claire (4m 21s):
Thank you so much. Well, what is your Survivor story? I ask people, ask me all the time. How does someone survive an abortion procedure? And I know my story. I was a twin, and I survived a D and E abortion procedure, but I'm curious, what is your Survivor story? How did you become an abortion survivor?

Denisha  (4m 46s):
I was 42, and I really, my husband and I are talking about the New York law, The Reproductive Act, and that came through, and I was really upset about that. And I said, you know, this isn't okay. And as we're processing that, the thought popped in my head, "Ask your dad if your mom ever considered having an abortion with you." And I thought that's kind of an interesting thought. You know, I was born in the seventies, so abortion was legal. And so I kind of, you know, pushed it aside. And we went on with our conversation, and then the next thing it popped in my head again. And I thought, okay, this is like an urgency. I felt. So I texted my biological dad.

Denisha  (5m 28s):
My mom has been passed away for decades now. And I texted my biological dad, and I said, "Hey, I have a question for you. I have a weird question for you. Is that, did mom ever consider having an abortion with me?" And I'm thinking, he's going to say yes, but of course, she didn't. And you know, we raised you and, and about two hours later, my text went off, and my dad said, Oh, you don't know, do you, he says, not only did your mom having one, he said, we tried, we had a, she had an abortion with you. And I remember I was sitting in, and I was sitting in Culvers actually.

Denisha  (6m 8s):
And I had a concrete mixer in one hand and like fries or cheese curds and the other hand, and I just sat down, and I felt like all the blood had rushed out in my body. I was just in shock. And I, I looked at my husband, and I thought, well, this was all great information until he said that. And I just stared at my phone, and I thought I could, this is this even a thing, you know, do people that I survived, I actually survived an abortion. I just wanted to know, did she consider it? I don't know why, you know, it just kept popping in my head. And so I found out later that day that my mom and dad found out they were pregnant with me in October.

Denisha  (6m 48s):
And in November, my mom took what was an off-the-market version of the abortion pill that's legal today. So she took four white pills, and to end the pregnancy in November, she was early in the pregnancy at that point. And in December, she was still pregnant. So that did not work. And so she went into the hospital in California, and she had a full DNC abortion. And after the procedure, January rolls around February rolls around, and she realizes that she's still pregnant. And at this point in California, you know, back in the, you know, later seventies to have an abortion that far along was illegal.

Denisha  (7m 33s):
So in February, she realized I'm having this baby. And so my parents got married in April, and then in July, I was born full term. So that, it's kind of, it's crazy to think about just how, how did all of that happen? How did the pills not work, just all of that story to kind of take that in on that day a couple of years ago was it was a lot.

Claire (8m 2s):
Wow. I didn't realize that you found out so Recently and by text message Have, but I've always to find out something. So I mean, earth-shattering information about your birth, but also just finding out that maybe what you believed about yourself wasn't necessarily the case. And I can relate to that. I remember the moment that I found out and and sat face-to-face with my birth mother and learned that I have survived an abortion and that I have been a twin and just navigating something like that is so I don't know, you can feel so alone.

Claire (8m 52s):
So a rejected, how did, how did it affect you? I mean, I, you shared how it felt in that moment. Still, as you went home, you told, you know, your family and your friends, and then eventually now your sharing your story through Reclaimed story and the Abortion Survivors Network and providing healing and hope to so many other women and families who have difficult stories, a difficult past difficult realities that maybe they didn't know where To about themselves, that then they found out something earth-shattering like you did.

Claire (9m 34s):
So how did it, how did it affect you over the following weeks and months and years?

Denisha  (9m 40s):
Well, I think the first thought that hit me was what's real, you know, what's true about my life. Sitting in that moment and in the processing over the next few weeks, the first thing I thought was like, what was real in my life? You know, what else do I know? Do I believe one way, but it is really another like I thought I was, you know, wanted and loved. And I was my mom, and dad would refer to me as the miracle baby. And my dad said, that's why honey because we attempted to injure Life twice. And you were a miracle. And I, I thought, I just thought I was a miracle, like all babies or miracles. Right. And so I think having that narrative my whole life, like, oh, I'm a miracle.

Denisha  (10m 23s):
You know, my parents loved me and then finding out what was really true, just really, and you nailed it with rejection, the feeling of just rejection and a little bit, even though I wasn't abandoned, I felt like a little bit of an abandonment. Like, wow, what if it had worked? I think the ripple effect just started playing out in my head, and I couldn't shut it off for the next couple of weeks. But if it had worked and looked at my three children thinking they wouldn't be here, if I weren't here, what would, you know, life be like?  I could potentially not have a life at all. And that, I think just that whole reality, that we're so many layers and that God was kind of just pulling off at the time.

Denisha  (11m 10s):
And it was a lot to process. I was positive that I was the only one. That's why you guys being trailblazers and sharing your story. So courageously is so important because I was positive. I was the only one. And I remember one night sitting down at my computer and being, I remember it took a lot of courage because I was sure I would get all of these articles, you know, about how no, this never happens. Survivors don't exist. And I typed in, do people survive abortions. And that's when I found The Abortion Survivors network and found your story. And I was like, Oh, I'm not alone.

Denisha  (11m 51s):
And that was huge.

Claire (11m 56s):
That's why it's so many of us share our stories so that people don't have to feel alone. And even bigger than us not being alone in sharing our birth circumstances. I hope that people hear that they're not alone because God is with them in the depths of disparity and the moments that are scary and uncertain and feel so unfair, which, you know, I would say is the story of an abortion survivor. Nobody thinks they'll find something like that out when day about themselves. And when they do it's, it's definitely hard.

Claire (12m 36s):
But I hope that people know that God will make a way and God is with us. And he wants to make something good out of something that was meant for evil. Something that struck me that you said is what your parents said to you. Your life is a miracle. And I, I vividly remember sitting across from my birth mother, and now she was crying and telling me her, her story, which is my story as well. The, her, her deepest pain, you know, something that she had not shared with anyone. She just kept saying, Claire, your life is a miracle. Your life is a miracle.

Claire (13m 17s):
I'm so sorry, but your life is a miracle. And at that moment, as I heard that I had a choice to either be angry and just sit in, in my despair, kind of witch, you know, I'm a human, I've done that. Some, but I, I had a choice whether I heard her words of your life is a miracle. And when she said that, what I heard was, God has a plan. This isn't an accident. His fingerprints are written all over your life. You can look back on your life and see that God has always been faithful.

Claire (13m 59s):
And he's always turned what was meant for harm, what was meant for evil, and to something that's good. And so I'm curious, was there hope in that moment, as well, as you found out that you survived an abortion, is you found out that you were rejected twice, not once, but twice Was there hope? And if there was, what, what did that look like for you?

Denisha  (14m 28s):
Well, the day that I found out, I had started Reclaimed story. It started off as a blog and I knew, I, I knew that it was going to end up being a ministry. I knew it was going to grow one day, and I didn't have a full vision for it. But my prayer, we had launched a blog the very month. I found out my Survivor story. And over those two weeks between the two dates, I was praying, God, what do you want me to stand for? What do you want us to stand for with Reclaimed Story? Obviously we're going to stand for Christ, but I thought, what are we going to stand four? You know, are we going to get involved in freeing people from sex trafficking? Are we going to get involved with saving babies?

Denisha  (15m 8s):
What are we going to stand for? And that was my constant prayer. I had a prayer team praying for me. And so the day that I found out, the first thing that I thought was my hope was this is what I'm going to stand for. Because having a thought pop in my head, ask your dad, if your mom ever considered having an abortion with you. I really believe Claire. That was God, because I didn't want to know that. To be honest, I really didn't want to know this. And it's not a club that you want to be in. It's not something that you're looking forward to. Oh, I hope I find out that I survived, you know, an attempt on my life. And so the hope for me was that God had a plan.

Denisha  (15m 50s):
Exactly what you said. I remember sitting, we're at a hotel the day that I found out, and we were shopping and going to Culvers. And I remember sitting there and the first thing I thought was at first I was upset and I thought God, why would you reveal this to me? Why would you, why did I need to know this at 42? You know, I have a whole lot of things I'm processing and my life, which is what led me to start Reclaimed story. But why do I need to know this? And the first thing I remembered was you've been praying, what are you going to stand for God? What are, what are we going to stand for as a ministry? And so I knew at that moment, that I didn't understand my story fully, but then I knew God had a plan for my story in this season and culture.

Denisha  (16m 36s):
And so I think that really brought me hope and it took a lot of wrestling to get there. I'm not going to say, I was like, Oh, I am a survivor. I'm going to use this for good. But the first thought, you know, after I wrestled with my emotions, it was a hope of going, God, didn't reveal this to hurt me. God revealed this to do something in it and through it. And I'm not my experience. And so that, and that brought me a lot of hope.

Claire (17m 3s):
It gives me goosebumps, just hearing you say that prayer that you'd been praying, what are you going to stand for? And then to see how God has been able to use your story. And, and I've only been able to see a little bit of how God has used you in your willingness to speak up and to serve and to be a part of the healing for so many people through the abortionsurvivors network. And I know that you're also doing that through Reclaimed story and it, it kind of, you know, your prayer kind of leads into my next question of what do you want people to know about abortion Survivors?

Claire (17m 43s):
I mean, when God, when you were asking God, what do you want me to stand for? Like you said, is it, your intent was never to ask God, like, make me an abortion survivor. You give me this platform to stand on truth, but he did that. He picked you. In fact, I, I look at it as an honor of a lifetime to be a survivor. And that God chose me and chose you and chose other friends of ours who are survivors to be able to speak truth and to stand on truth and to act on that prayer that you prayed, what, what are we going to stand for?

Claire (18m 27s):
And so I think that a lot of times people can see the importance of standing for truth specifically on the Life issue, through the abortion survivor. And so I want to know what, what do you want people to know about abortion Survivors and how can that motivate them to stand for something that truly matters?

Denisha  (18m 53s):
That is such a great question. I would love for people to know about Survivors, that we're not different than them. That, you know, even as you're listening, like you might think that's not my story. I'm not a Survivor. And our stories are really like, Whoa, right? I remember I've, as I've told she had with people in my story, they've, I've had some people say, wait, is that a thing? But I would love people to know. And even though that sounds so far out, right, we are not any different than anyone else who has experienced something hard in their lives. And so I think as far as Survivors, I hope that our faces and our stories humanize the unborn.

Denisha  (19m 39s):
I hope we can look at us and go while you were once there you were once, you know, in the womb with an attempt on your life, but I hope they can look at us and see us as people who love, who care, who have experienced something hard and our life and that there is not that much distance between, between your stories and our stories. Because if we boil off the experience we had, right, our experience includes surviving an abortion, but other people have experiences of abuse, of grief and loss of, you know, hard childhoods neglect.

Denisha  (20m 19s):
And when you take all of those experiences and you boil off the top, right, we boil off the details of our stories. What we have left in the pot is the same emotions. If we wrestle with our identity, who we are in Christ, our worthiness are, we worthy, we wrestle with rejection. We wrestle with, you know, sadness and, and all of these things. We need hope, and we need healing just like anybody else. That's had hard happened in their Story. We're using our stories for good, just like everybody has the opportunity to do that.

Claire (20m 55s):
What is the response been like as you've shared your story with other people, maybe people at your church or people in your family, or even just in general in this culture that we live in today, what's the response been like?

Denisha  (21m 12s):
The response is a shock. Every time if I have a dollar for every time somebody says, is that a thing? I was like, yes, it is totally a thing. And I have so many friends, I have like a 360 people who is a thing. And so I think, yeah, it's shock. In fact, it's interesting. I had shared my story with one gal and a couple of months later, talk to her again. And she said, wait, you mean, you survived your Mo like you were the one in the womb. And I said, yes. And she goes, I always thought you were sharing with me that you had an abortion that you survived.

Denisha  (21m 54s):
And so that's so interesting. So I learned to say that I have survived. My mom's failed abortion. So I just think it's so unknown that we're bringing a voice to something that hasn't, hasn't been out there for the public to hear that people survive abortions. This is, you know, something that happens. And so I think that there are a shock and, and needs a lot of clarity. At times when I, I had the opportunity, I had a gal call me and she said, hi there. I didn't know her. She connected. And my friend had given me Her. She had given her my number and she said, hi there.

Denisha  (22m 35s):
She says, I understand, you know, a lot about abortions and I kinda sat down cause I didn't expect that, you know, hello two o'clock in the afternoon. And she said, I understand, you know, a lot about abortions. And I thought, okay, the first thing that hit me is, okay, Lord guide my words. And I said, you know, I do actually. And I said, you know, what's your name? And I'm so glad that you called me. And she said, she shared that she was pregnant. And she was trying to decide on what type of abortion to have and get this. She was trying to decide over taking the abortion pill or having the abortion procedure. He said, I'm so glad that you called me and that you're doing your research before making a decision.

Denisha  (23m 18s):
Why don't you tell me a little bit about where you are in life and, and how are you I'm, you know, how'd you find yourself, you know, in this situation, what is causing you to consider it, you know, an abortion. And she shared her story and we just had a very honest, loving conversation. And I said, I said, I'm so glad that you shared that this must be really hard, you know? And I said, do you mind? We're about 45 minutes into the conversation. And I said, you know, do you mind if I share with you my, and she said, absolutely. You know, please. And so I said, you know, I said, it's interesting that when we first talked to you asked, you know, you are asking you between the abortion pill or having a procedure.

Denisha  (23m 59s):
And I said, I'm going to say something that might shock you a little bit. I said, here's, what's interesting. I said, my mom experienced both. And she said, Oh. And I said, so I do know a lot about this. I said, the interesting thing in my story is that I am the baby, that she tried to abort and there was this long pause. And I said, I know that's a little shocking. And I say, and I did tell her in the very beginning, I said, my hope for you is that you choose life, but I will walk with you through this Choice. I will walk with you. I'm so glad that we connected. And so when I shared that with her, we processed for a little bit, and then she just suddenly stopped.

Denisha  (24m 39s):
And she started a cry and she said, you're like my baby. And I said, you know what, friends I am. And I said, but you have an opportunity to make a different choice for your baby. Then my mom chose for me. And I said, the fact that I survived, I said that isn't as common as, you know, completing the procedure. And I said, so I said, you don't have to go through that. And this moment I realized that God was going to use my story to impact her in the life decisions she was facing. And so that was a Friday. And I said, you know what I said before, you know, we go forward.

Denisha  (25m 20s):
Why don't I meet you? I would love to meet you, pick you up. And why don't we go to a pregnancy center that I know of here in town? And we did. We went in together and she was so sweet to just let me walk that with her. And she chose Life. She, she texted me a few days later and said, I'm keeping my baby. And I thought that was a response that I didn't expect from my story.

Claire (25m 44s):
That's so incredible to hear. I've had very similar responses. And that's, that's exactly, you know, when I asked you earlier, what is their hope in your Survivors story? And I think even in the midst of, of, of just surviving and the midst of finding out something that is as crazy and, and heartbreaking, like surviving an abortion, the hope is maybe even something that you can't see yet in the midst of your surviving, in the midst of, of finding out that your story is that what you think is, is the hope is that God has that plan and he has a purpose, and he knew exactly who you were and that he was calling you to, to, to have this story so that he could use you and the lives of others.

Claire (26m 36s):
And so I think you're seeing the hope in your story, as you're able to use your story, voice your experience, your survival, and to speak into the lives of others and to encourage, and to walk alongside women and families who find themselves in pregnancy situations and people who are finding out that they survived abortions. I mean, there's just so many things that you can speak into as the Survivor and use your experience, even though you didn't ask for it, right. You can use your experience to impact and to save and to give value to the lives of other people.

Claire (27m 21s):
And so I love hearing those stories of how God does that through people, through women like you Denisha. So that's super encouraging. You mentioned that you work at a church, and so I'm just curious, like, as you found out you survived an abortion, how did that affect your role at the church? And was abortion something that your church was talking about or was abortion something that you had really thought about or had a stance on before you learned that you had survived an abortion? And then how has God used your survival in church ministry to bring conversation and to bring healing and hope?

Denisha  (28m 8s):
Yeah, I was, I was a Pastor for 10 years at my church and loved it. And it was the hardest decision to like, decide to leave. I actually left in April 1st of last year. So when I found out my Survivors story, or the first thing I did was go to our leadership and I said, okay. So I found out this and I feel called to share it. And I'm you and I both got to work on a project called Faces with Faces of Choice, where we told our testimony and was put into a commercial and a website. And so I went to my pastor's and said, Mmm, I would love to do this. But I realize as a pastor, I am also representing our church.

Denisha  (28m 48s):
I'm is this okay that I step in to this, this, this project? And they gave me a full permission. They were like, yes, absolutely. You know, definitely what you do with your whole life outside of church. So that's not a problem feel free. And I said, it could get controversial and it did. Right. Okay. You and Melissa, we went to the March for life. And when you guys An unveiled the video and the project for Faces of Choice, which was so amazing, by the way, I sat at home and just cried. And the two of you on that stage, I mean, the president walks off, you guys walk on, it was just such a moment.

Denisha  (29m 29s):
As you guys represented Survivors all over the world, it was such a mom. I was sobbing and you guys are standing there for all of us, you know? And you unveiled the commercial is just brought so much awareness. Even the fact that there are Survivors. So that happened at the March for life, right? That was a Friday, I believe. And I have kind of compartmentalized my life, right? Like I'm, I'm starting to see God putting together my story and how he wants to utilize that. And then over here, I'm a pastor at our church and it's another day and open up my card or put my foot down on the pavement. And a woman came up to my car and she said, Denisha, I saw your video.

Denisha  (30m 10s):
And all of a sudden it, Claire, he was like two worlds collided. And I thought, I don't know what to do in this moment. This was my project over here. Like, and then this is my like real life here. And woe, it was like an explosion to happen like this. I was like, and I kinda just, I must've looked at Shakte, you know, it, I was like, OK, we're doing this today. Like this is happening. And she said, thank you so much for sharing. And she said, I want to share with you. She says I had an abortion and I've never told anybody. And all I could think of in that moment, Claire was, this lady was my mom. My mom passed away when I was 23. And I knew a lot of her secrets, but I never knew this one.

Denisha  (30m 53s):
And all I could think of is this woman's standing before me is my mom. And my mom went 23 years of her life, not talking about this, caring, this raising me, waking up in the morning, taking care of me, looking at me in the eye, knowing somewhere inside of her heart, what had happened. And so looking at this woman, this compassion came over me and I thought, I want to work with women that have had abortions. Like that was such a strong feeling. Like I just want them to know that they are loved that Christ forgives and reduce. And there is hope that they don't have to carry that with them, their whole life, the way my mom did. And so all of that, like that was such a moment. And all of those emotions flooded me. And so we talked and I hugged her and I walked maybe 20, 30 feet before another woman came up to me and told me her story of experiencing an abortion.

Denisha  (31m 44s):
And I walked up to the stairs and within an hour and a half, I had talked to for women at my church who have experienced a personal abortion. And so that rec to me, I remember I came home and just cried. And just that, are we talking about this as a church, thinking about our churches, we have celebrate recovery, right? If you, if you have struggled with addiction, we have divorce care. If you've struggled with, you know, how to divorce, we have all of these different categories, right. To say there's help for this. But what I wasn't seeing is a lot of help for women who have had abortions.

Denisha  (32m 25s):
This was my mom. And are we, you know, as we look out on our churches in a Sunday morning, I think sometimes we might believe that that doesn't affect our church. You know, that's not something that's in our church. And I just want to say that, you know, one out of four women have experienced an abortion. And so my heart just like lead to at the opportunity to start talking about healing. You know, so much of the topic of abortion has been, you know, politicized, right? It's, it's been something where it's, it's not all churches want to embrace that conversation because of the fact that it is political.

Denisha  (33m 5s):
And it's very divisive. When you look down at it, there are 61 million women and 61 million men in America alone, more than that, probably right. That have experienced an abortion. And so what if we start with healing and that's really a passion of mine is what if we start with healing. And there are so many organizations out there that do provide healing after abortions. That is my encouragement at, for churches to start with the healing piece and to realize that as you, as we look out over our churches, one out of four women have experienced an abortion. And so I really felt that that particular morning.

Denisha  (33m 46s):
And so my heart was just so heavy for all of these women that have never shared their story, because it doesn't always fit in church circles to say I've had an abortion. And so just to have the freedom and the healing and experience, God just reclaiming that, that, that experience in our lives and providing that that freedom and forgiveness is a huge passion of mine. And I know that in churches, it's hard to talk about 'cause it has become so political. And so I just, I think that there is so much opportunity as churches to provide healing, to come at it through healing, because as women heal from a past abortion, what's going to happen. They're going to let go of that shame there going to let go of any guilt or shame they've been carrying.

Denisha  (34m 31s):
And then at that point, and not everybody experiences the hat, right? But the majority of women from what I've found do have some sort of emotion behind on their experience. So what if those men and women right over 61 million in America alone, what if those women and men find healing, find restoration in their story, and then step out to start talking about it and using their voice to what abortion really looks like. And what if it's just a friend that calls them and says, Hey, I'm pregnant considering this? Well, let me tell you of my experience. If we take off that shame and we provide that healing, people can begin to ex to talk about what that experience was truly like behind the clinic doors.

Denisha  (35m 14s):
And I think that if more people who have experienced an abortion are healed and can use their voice to speak to others one-on-one or to crowds, right? That, that I think that will impact the number of abortions that we see. So I think the church has a huge role and so much opportunity to provide that healing.

Claire (35m 34s):
That's something I talk about often. And you know, if you look at our culture today, you'll see that planned Parenthood and the abortion industry is, is saying to women and families, we're here for you. I mean, they don't hold that back. People know planned Parenthood is a year. The abortion industry is HERE. They're ready to quote on quote service. You know how, however you want to say it. That's how they're wording it. Right? So that's how the culture is hearing it. And, and I've wondered so often, especially since I found out that I had survived, an abortion that I have been affected by abortion is something that growing up in the church.

Claire (36m 16s):
I, I thought that will never be my story, right. But I have wondered like why isn't the church saying it even louder? Because if, if we want women to feel like they can, they can come to the church as their safe place, as the place that where they can find healing in grace and mercy and the love of Christ and community, a community of people who wants to walk alongside them in their grief, in difficult circumstances, et cetera. If, if that's what we're preaching and saying is the church should be why isn't the church saying, okay, you've you, you're in an unplanned pregnancy.

Claire (36m 58s):
You can come to us. This is the place for you. You've had a, had an abortion. You can come to us, we're going to acknowledge you. We're going to walk alongside you. There is hope. And there is healing. What I find is that churches, the majority of churches are completely silent. And so women don't know, they can come to their community of believers, to the church when they find themselves in these situations and they feel shame, they feel they need to hide. They need to cover up their sin. So many things. And also if they've had, if they have experienced an abortion in their past, they, they are silently suffering.

Claire (37m 42s):
And the piece of our church who has nobody is saying anything. And so what are you doing with, with your ministry that is helping churches are helping leaders that you come in contact with, be equipped, to have the right wording, to know how to serve in their specific community and their specific church. How are, how are you starting that conversation or helping others, or if your not, what is the church's role and where can they begin? Is there, is there a landing place for them that if they want to equip themselves that they can.

Denisha  (38m 25s):
I think that sometimes we can get excited about something and then we want to stand up and make a huge stance, right. For life and against abortion. I would say, do it gently knowing that out of four women in your congregation have probably experienced abortion. And so I think a great place to start is with healing is with healing and acknowledging the women who are sitting in there instead of trying to maybe influence out of the gate, you know, to, for people to be pro-life. I think that caring and loving and nurturing the women in your church that have experienced it, the families in your church that have been impacted by abortion, whether it's a sibling that's been lost or a family member who's made the decision, you know, and there are so many people are a ripple effect to, this is huge.

Denisha  (39m 15s):
So I would encourage leaders to start with healing. There's all sorts of different healing programs out there. And so being able to just provide that space for healing is going to open up that conversation in beautiful ways and give you the opportunity to educate and equip your congregation to stand for life.

Claire (39m 38s):
I just want to add to that, that embrace grace would be a great organization. I would encourage anyone who has, you know, goes to a church and you don't hear your pastor talk about this, or maybe you work at a church, or maybe you're a Pastor are listening today and equip yourself and your church members to embrace life and to embrace all of these different circumstances, people experience in relation to abortion in their life. Let's see. There's one last question I wanted to ask you before you share about your ministry and how listeners can follow you.

Claire (40m 24s):
And I have to imagine just because I do have a abortionsurvivors reach out to me right now on a, just about a weekly basis. I hear from one or two people who have heard my story or followed my Facebook page or heard through word of mouth, that they're not alone, that there are other abortionsurvivors out there. And I'm sure that you have had similar experience as abortion survivors reach out to you. The more you share your story and put yourself out there and serve others. So what, what would you say to the person who just found out that they survived an abortion?

Denisha  (41m 10s):
Mm. I would say you are not alone. I felt like I found a Family. When I, when I found the abortionsurvivors network, there are people to walk with you through the shock of finding out your story. And also the healing that follows. I lead the healing program or the abortionsurvivors network. And we have, we have biweekly groups. We have monthly meetings to just walk through that healing process with you to take that step of faith and, and step out and reach out to another Survivor. And Claire, you have your book Survivor coming out. And I think that is going to be just such a encouragement to not only if you are a Survivor to know that you are not alone, but also to just the world to hear your story from the perspective of a survivor.

Denisha  (41m 58s):
So I would just say, you're not alone. And you have a whole tribe, a whole family I'm that would love to come alongside us.

Claire (42m 4s):
Oh, you are exactly right. I wish that when I found out that I survived an abortion, that I knew other people and that I had a community and that people asked me the questions that we are as Survivors, ah, need to be asked, like, are you OK? How are you processing this? What does it mean that I survived an abortion? What does that mean for me? What does that mean for my family? What does that mean for our culture? You know, oftentimes abortion survivors do feel rejected. They feel alone. They feel like there is an outcast in society because society doesn't want to acknowledge that we exist.

Claire (42m 45s):
And so if you are a survivor, I would also encourage you to reach out and experience what God wants you to experience through the healing, in your journey and through the hope in your journey. As we've discussed today, Denisha, it's been so fun to talk with you. I feel like we can just go on and on and on and, and make this like a two part series. And maybe I'm not going to have you back to, to continue on. Cause I know people have just so enjoyed hearing from you today. I'd love to give people an opportunity to just hear a little bit about Reclaimed story, maybe how they can be involved in that and how they can follow up with you after today, if they have questions, or if they're interested in being a part of Reclaimed Story, the abortionsurvivors network and all that you're doing

Denisha  (43m 44s):
Absolutely. What we found is that women need hope and healing. And there comes a part in our lives where we might have a file cabinet that is so neatly stacked with all of our files and life and all of our experiences. And then those there's those files that are sitting on top of our desk and they don't fit in. It's the stories of trauma, it's stories of abuse, it stories of neglect, and those experiences as what Reclaimed Story is there for, to provide a safe community for people to come alongside you, to know that you aren't alone. And that actually the community piece came out of what I've experienced on what they abortionsurvivors network.

Denisha  (44m 27s):
And we want to encourage you to find hope and healing through a vibrant life with, and

Claire (44m 32s):
That is our passion. So we also have a podcast on Living the Reclaimed Life. You can find us on all of the podcasts outlets and our website is Reclaimed Story dot com. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for joining us Donisha and thank you To all of our listeners for joining us. This wraps up our mini series, meet Survivors. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed hearing from other abortionsurvivors in their stories and their wisdom. I know that I learned so much just through their willingness to share with us.

0 (45m 11s):
Thanks for listening. I pray. You found hope in today's conversation and maybe even feel a little less alone in your story. Stay connected with us on Facebook and Instagram at Reclaimed Story. Want to learn more about Living the Reclaimed Life and how you can be a part of our growing community of reclaimers. Check out our website at Reclaimed Story dot com, all of those links and more we'll be in the show notes. And if you enjoyed this inspirational podcast, be sure to subscribe, rate, and review. That is a huge help in helping us reach more people to live the Reclaimed life. Thank you so much for listening.