Let's Talk About Suffering ~ Susan Habegger Ep. 106

When you hear the word “suffering,” what do you think of? 

Maybe you think of pain, loss, or trauma. There are so many ways that suffering can enter our lives. We have all experienced suffering at some point in our lives. In this episode, we will talk about the presence of suffering in our lives and courageous ways forward. Welcome to this episode with Susan Habegger. 

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Transcript

Transcript is auto-generated.

Denisha: [00:00:00] When you think of the word suffering, what do you think of? Maybe you [00:00:05] think of pain, loss, or trauma. There are so many ways [00:00:10] that suffering can enter our lives, and we've all experienced suffering at [00:00:15] some point. In this episode, we will talk about the presence of suffering [00:00:20] in our lives and courageous ways forward.

Welcome to this episode [00:00:25] with Susan Haubegger. Welcome to living the reclaim life podcast. [00:00:30] I'm Denisha. We're glad you're here for conversations that revive hope, inspire [00:00:35]healing, and encourage you to live a vibrant life with Christ. So grab a cup of [00:00:40] coffee as we chat with today's guest.[00:00:45]

Welcome back to living the reclaimed life. Last week, [00:00:50] Susan Habegger and I had a fun conversation, sharing some of the behind the [00:00:55] scenes of her week here with us in Tucson, Arizona, we had a [00:01:00] training, we had a conference. And one of the things that we keep hearing is [00:01:05] how do we hear more of Susan? So we want to share a little bit more [00:01:10]today of maybe some things that Susan shared at the conference and maybe some [00:01:15] extra things as well.

So we're going to tackle that today and give you a little bit [00:01:20] more of. Susan's experience and thoughts on the presence of suffering in our [00:01:25] lives. So Susan, if you don't mind, just in case this is the first time that [00:01:30] someone's caught you on the podcast, I'd love to read your bio. Okay. [00:01:35] So Susan Haubegger has lived and worked internationally for 30 years.

[00:01:40] Her heart was drawn early to those who must find a way forward in the midst of [00:01:45]difficult circumstances. And in 2010, she founded a humanitarian [00:01:50] nonprofit thrive life skills with a vision to come alongside and [00:01:55] walk in the suffering in order to provide hope and help them discover a courageous [00:02:00] and peaceful way forward.

God has brought clarity and reality to this vision through [00:02:05] personal experience and circumstances. And so Susan spends most of her time [00:02:10] writing, traveling, teaching, and she is happiest. And I can attest to this because [00:02:15] we saw this in the seven, six days we had to hear that you are happiest when [00:02:20] you're creatively engaging with others to discover courageous ways forward in [00:02:25] spiritual, emotional, and work life.

So in case this is your first [00:02:30] introduction to Susan, I want to encourage you to go back and listen to our last. Two [00:02:35] podcasts, uh, where we got to dive in a little more of who is Susan and how did the Lord [00:02:40] direct her to where she is right now? So today, as we [00:02:45] come together, I would love for you, Susan, to lead us into a [00:02:50] conversation about the presence of suffering in our lives.

Susan: Is that an [00:02:55] inviting way to start a podcast? Some of you have joined and you're like, Oh, [00:03:00] this is gonna be so encouraging. And then the first thing we say is, let's talk about [00:03:05] suffering. We have this strange. [00:03:10] Sort of relationship with our idea of suffering. I think in that we, [00:03:15] we know it's there. We know that we're [00:03:20] not going to go through this life unscathed by suffering.[00:03:25]

However, a great bit of our life is [00:03:30] spent attempting to avoid it. In some way and [00:03:35]when if or when it happens to us are [00:03:40] also guttural response is to find a way to [00:03:45]escape it as quickly as possible, because I think many of [00:03:50] us view our journey through life [00:03:55] in one particular way. One pathway forward. And when [00:04:00] suffering trauma, a crisis event, [00:04:05] a new awareness of what has been happening in our lives, when that [00:04:10] comes to us.

Then somehow we envision that [00:04:15] as a separate path over a parallel to our [00:04:20] real life, maybe even at a right angle that we go off on that and [00:04:25] somehow now everything is dependent on completing that and getting [00:04:30] back on. The path that was really intended for us. And [00:04:35] even though we might not come out and give those words and say those [00:04:40]words, the way that the actions that we take the things that we tell [00:04:45] ourselves, the things that we tell other people.

reveal that is how we [00:04:50] are looking at it. And so in some way, when [00:04:55] suffering hits, the idea of survival kicks in. [00:05:00] And one of our first attempts at survival is to [00:05:05] undo Whatever has happened, undo the change. Now, this is a really good [00:05:10] thing if we've touched the stove and it's hot and we feel pain and we [00:05:15] to undo what's happening.

It's a gift to us to have feeling in our hands [00:05:20] and pull back from that and protect ourselves. But [00:05:25] when we are living life and things are happening, moments of pain, [00:05:30]moments of. Betrayal moments of personal crises or [00:05:35] even natural disaster. And maybe it's happening to us, or maybe it's [00:05:40] happening to someone that we love dearly.

But in some way, this cloud, [00:05:45] this idea of suffering is there. Our first attempt at survival is [00:05:50] to undo that change. We desperately want to get back to the place [00:05:55] where everything was, or at least we thought it was, [00:06:00] all right. Because now in that moment of [00:06:05] suffering, the previous seems like it was a better place to be.

We imagine [00:06:10] that we must have been safe, or safer in that, in that before [00:06:15] place. And so the truth is that we try to scramble. And put things back, [00:06:20] put life back together the way it was. And the reality [00:06:25] is that from that moment of crisis or [00:06:30] awareness of coming to grips with something in our lives, we [00:06:35] are engaged in what we would call resolution.

And [00:06:40] resolution is that process of attempting to solve a problem. And [00:06:45] I really believe that is something. It's part of the way we're created in the image of [00:06:50] God. If there's any solver of problems and someone knowing [00:06:55] how to bring things to a good conclusion, it is Him. And He [00:07:00] has put that, a little bit of that inside us.

And to resolve [00:07:05] something is to come to peace with it. And so, this. [00:07:10] response that we have to come to peace with it. But [00:07:15] then we have to think about the idea of, are we truly coming to peace with it? [00:07:20] Or are we simply surrendering and giving in to defeat? [00:07:25]And so here we are in this new relationship with suffering.

Here [00:07:30] we are. It's not a Part of a story we're reading about and we can cry our [00:07:35]tears and close the book or close the newspaper or turn off the television. [00:07:40] Now it is our life and here we are in the midst of this response and we find ourselves in a [00:07:45] very difficult place at that moment in time. That was 

Denisha: such a great point.

[00:07:50] When we see something hard on the television, we can turn it off. We can turn the [00:07:55] channel, but when it is our life, we have to sit in it. We have to walk that [00:08:00] out. And yet I know my first response is exactly what you said. It's a [00:08:05] scramble to resolution. How quickly can I change that channel and get off of [00:08:10] that topic?

Because that's too hard. So coming to [00:08:15] peace with our suffering. Kind of reminds me of that a [00:08:20] rug. This is what I did. My whole life is every time suffering intern. I picked up the [00:08:25] rug into my room and, you know, metaphorically shoved whatever I was suffering with [00:08:30] underneath that rug and that worked great for me.

Until it didn't. [00:08:35] And about my late thirties, early forties, I found myself tripping over [00:08:40] this huge hump in the middle of the rug. And that looked like maybe patterns, [00:08:45]behavior patterns I was doing. It looked like triggers that life was throwing at me [00:08:50] that I had not resolved and come to peace with that original event.

I began [00:08:55] tripping over that rug and that It took courage to begin to [00:09:00] lift up that rug and start to reconcile some of those moments of suffering. [00:09:05] So I can really relate to just how quick can I turn that channel? How quick can I move [00:09:10] on from that? So I know that shoving it under the rug is not a [00:09:15] healthy way to respond to suffering.

I know that now, [00:09:20] and I have to catch myself. To not continue to do that, but is there a [00:09:25] healthy way to respond to suffering in our lives? I believe there 

Susan: is and [00:09:30] I think that's why you and I are both doing what we are doing because [00:09:35] we do believe that there is a way forward and there's a way forward of courage and[00:09:40] with peace and this idea of just putting it aside and moving [00:09:45] on is not always a good idea and there will be people who tell us [00:09:50] that you just need to get over it.

You need to put it aside. This is what [00:09:55] happened. You need to Put it in a box, put it under the bed, put it under the rug, whatever [00:10:00] you do and continue on with the story. And maybe there's even [00:10:05] an urgency for that as we think about others, other people in our [00:10:10]lives, that it will be easier for those people.

If [00:10:15] we do present the face of being okay of being [00:10:20] resolved to the situation, we don't want others to be concerned for us. And [00:10:25] so the result is that we run quickly towards [00:10:30] resolution and do not allow ourselves to feel the suffering. [00:10:35] We have talked about this idea of an unhealthy way of looking at [00:10:40] suffering as being similar to what you might do with a physical problem.

You're walking [00:10:45] along and somehow you cut your leg and you're in a [00:10:50] situation where this would be an inconvenience to others and an inconvenience to yourself. to [00:10:55] your life and the way that it's going. And so you put a bandage on it. You [00:11:00] continue to wear something that will cover it. And after some time, the [00:11:05] infection has set in.

And now other parts of our bodies are suffering from [00:11:10] this infection. And if I go to receive medical help, [00:11:15] the information that I will receive or the advice I will receive is In order [00:11:20] to help the other parts of your body that are now hurting from this [00:11:25] injury, we're going to have to open up the original wound and cleanse it.

[00:11:30] And that is often true for our suffering as well. [00:11:35] And I know there may be some people who would say, No, [00:11:40] this is not a good thing. We should keep our focus on the good and on the [00:11:45] positive and on the beauty. And we want to bring that into our lives. But it [00:11:50] is important for us to remove the poisonous.

[00:11:55] infection that settled in the beginning of that suffering and is [00:12:00] now branching out from the original wound. And so in a healthy way of [00:12:05] dealing with suffering, we are actually going to go back and look at it [00:12:10] clearly and deal with some of the. [00:12:15] branches of infection that it has put off into our lives. The [00:12:20] idea of actually engaging with suffering or investing in suffering [00:12:25] might not seem like a good thing.

It's like turn this podcast off right now because that's [00:12:30] exactly what I'm trying to do is getting away from the suffering. But I [00:12:35] would encourage you that there is a way forward that [00:12:40] begins with embracing. The suffering there is a way forward [00:12:45] that discovers it to look at suffering without. [00:12:50] Attaching that immediate need for [00:12:55] resolution that it's a good thing because we're results [00:13:00] intended in this part of the world.

We like quick results. We [00:13:05] want things to be done well and easily and for the change to be [00:13:10] made quickly. When I want something fixed, I want it fixed now, but we're not a [00:13:15]coffee pot. And so the pain that has been Growing inside of [00:13:20] us has been growing perhaps for days and months and years. [00:13:25] And so that pain that is there [00:13:30] is crying out for attention.

And we are [00:13:35] the best person to give that attention to ourselves. [00:13:40] We are the best person to look at [00:13:45] it and to hear its cries and to understand the [00:13:50] loss. that has taken place because of this suffering. In [00:13:55] most suffering, I don't like to say every or all, but [00:14:00] in the high majority of suffering, there is some kind of loss that [00:14:05] has taken place.

And it's very important for us to [00:14:10] look at that loss, to comprehend it. Sometimes we're not [00:14:15] even aware of All of the layers of loss that have taken [00:14:20] place. We might look at the very obvious. Suppose my [00:14:25] house burns down. The very obvious is I've lost my house and everyone [00:14:30] looks at me and categorizes me. Oh my goodness, Susan has lost her [00:14:35] house.

We need to help her. And so things are replaced, things are replaced, [00:14:40] put back together. And as soon as they and I can see myself in [00:14:45] a home and I have all the essentials that I need for carrying on life. [00:14:50] Ah, good. The loss has been fixed. We're all done. There are [00:14:55]layers of loss that have not been brought to the surface, things [00:15:00] that need my attention as I discover how I'm dealing [00:15:05] with the loss that is even so much greater than those [00:15:10]material things.

So it's important for us to discover and become aware of [00:15:15] the loss, and that's a whole process. And for us to [00:15:20] acknowledge it and mourn that loss. And so a healthy [00:15:25]way of responding to suffering is to [00:15:30] take the time that pain is demanding or [00:15:35]wanting from us. It's like I had, I have three [00:15:40] daughters and one of them when she was young and she would be talking to [00:15:45] me and maybe I wasn't paying the best attention that I should have.

[00:15:50] She would take her face and turn it towards her and she'd say, look at me, [00:15:55]mommy, look at me. And I think there are ways that some of our [00:16:00] pain. Some of our hurts are actually [00:16:05] attempting to turn our own faces and say, look at me. [00:16:10] I want your attention. And maybe if we give that [00:16:15] attention to ourselves, it will not [00:16:20] demand so much attention.

From others [00:16:25] and from other ways that we might be attempting to cover it over and [00:16:30] so as hard as difficult as it is a healthy [00:16:35] relationship to suffering involves us looking at the suffering, [00:16:40] being comfortable and becoming familiar with the [00:16:45] ways that harmful effects of suffering. The effects that [00:16:50] they may cause in our life, so that we recognize those and are able to deal [00:16:55] with them.

So it is, I guess I would say, a healthy way through suffering is becoming [00:17:00] familiar with it on a number of levels, and that takes some courage, [00:17:05] but it also yields [00:17:10] real fruit and real strength as we move forward in that. Those are 

Denisha: [00:17:15] such good Tips, and I think things that resonate in our heart as we [00:17:20] hear it, even if we not don't necessarily are like, Oh, I'm so excited to [00:17:25] jump on that journey.

Susan: Yes. 

Denisha: Are there principles or [00:17:30] truths that can be foundational for us on this journey. [00:17:35] I think 

Susan: so. And we, there's so much to talk about. And so when [00:17:40] I share these things, they sound like a list of steps and they're not. There are no, [00:17:45] there's no list of steps towards healing. It's a journey and we spend longer in [00:17:50] some areas than we do in others.

I think one of the things to [00:17:55] remember, if you are A person who [00:18:00] comes from a spiritual perspective and if God is a part of your [00:18:05] life and you think of him as a part of your healing is to [00:18:10] have a good healthy understanding of that as well. There [00:18:15] are times that we might put that in a list of steps. So we think [00:18:20] in that journey of suffering, it must be very clear cut.

[00:18:25] So will you suffer? I tell you, you can trust Jesus, [00:18:30] and then you get forward, and it all sounds right, and really, you know, pragmatically, [00:18:35] or maybe truthfully it is, but [00:18:40] pragmatically, there's a lot more that's interwoven in that, and so, if you were to look [00:18:45] of a at a visual of what those [00:18:50] steps were, say that there, we have four of them say that we have suffering and [00:18:55] we have an emotional response and we have trust Jesus and we [00:19:00] have get forward and we want to put all those together in a perfect package.

Well, for [00:19:05] many of us, maybe we've even experienced this in some studies. That it [00:19:10] seems like a series of steps that we share our suffering, and then we give an [00:19:15]emotional response, and then we trust Jesus, and then we move forward. But I would propose [00:19:20] to you that it is more like a four corded piece of yarn [00:19:25] that's all woven together.

And at any point in time, [00:19:30] along that piece of cording, there is suffering, there is [00:19:35]emotional response, there's trusting Jesus. And there's getting forward [00:19:40] and they're all touching each other and all a part of [00:19:45] that journey, because I fear that if we just make it a [00:19:50] series of steps, the reality will eventually set [00:19:55] in, because we will find ourselves.

once again suffering, [00:20:00] we will find ourselves having an emotional response that we did not plan [00:20:05] for. And then we'll think, well, where is Jesus? What happened? I thought I trusted him. [00:20:10] So if we come at it in the beginning, from a perspective [00:20:15] that it's all woven together. And at that moment, when I'm suffering right, bumped up [00:20:20] against me is Jesus.

And when I'm having that emotional response, There I am, and in the [00:20:25] process of it all, I'm beginning to move forward. So I [00:20:30] would leave with you three in particular principles or [00:20:35] truths, and these are all another lesson. Okay? Each one of them could be its [00:20:40]own podcast. But the first one is that you have a trustworthy and [00:20:45] safe traveling companion, and he is intertwined with you [00:20:50] on that journey.

He is trustworthy. He is [00:20:55] safe. Not everyone feels safe after you have experienced suffering [00:21:00] and he is the one. He is your creator. He's [00:21:05] unchanging. He's truthful. He holds all things together. And I love in this [00:21:10] situation to call him the I am because he is the one who [00:21:15] has responded to me when I say. I [00:21:20] can trust no one.

There is no one that can be on this journey with [00:21:25] me that I feel safe about. Back in the Book of Exodus, [00:21:30] Moses was in that place of sharing with the people who had been, [00:21:35]they had been abused, they had lost their hope, they were. Didn't weren't sure [00:21:40] anyone was hearing their cries for help and he's supposed to go and tell them That this [00:21:45] God is going to help them and he says who should I say is coming and God says I [00:21:50] am So he is our I am he's a trustworthy and safe traveling [00:21:55] companion And then I also would say to you that [00:22:00] you have not been consumed Your suffering is part of your [00:22:05] story, but it's not your identity.

You have [00:22:10] not been consumed by this event, this awareness, this [00:22:15] betrayal, whatever it might be. It might feel like it. But you [00:22:20] have not been consumed. It is a part of your story and will always be there. We [00:22:25] should never try to erase it. We will never try to write it out of your story, [00:22:30] but it is not your identity.

And then the third one is there is [00:22:35] beauty and purpose interwoven in your suffering. There is [00:22:40] beauty and purpose interwoven in your suffering. [00:22:45] Many things may feel wasted or spoiled [00:22:50] or tainted or ruined. However, [00:22:55] God does a wonderful job [00:23:00]at redeeming things in a way that we have [00:23:05] never expected. To redeem is to regain possession of something, [00:23:10] to replace a negative with a positive.

Positive or a blessing and never [00:23:15] in any of this time, are we trying to outweigh we're never trying to [00:23:20] somehow weigh the balance and the good so that it outweighs what happened to us. [00:23:25] That's not a part of this picture. We are simply retraining [00:23:30] ourselves to see good. and to see blessing because oftentimes it's [00:23:35] very difficult to see it and to let that back into our lives.[00:23:40]

So through the years, God has redeemed various things in my life. Maybe it's a time [00:23:45] of year, a season or a song or a, [00:23:50] A piece of clothing, even good things that are scarred, but [00:23:55] he has a way of redeeming those things for us and helping us to see [00:24:00] that in that tapestry, there is beauty and purpose that is [00:24:05] woven into our suffering as we embrace the [00:24:10] suffering, because truly the beauty in that tapestry would [00:24:15] not be as brilliant and as profound [00:24:20] without the suffering that's interwoven.

And oh my, everything [00:24:25] within me goes against that. But I know that from experience, that if [00:24:30] I only had the beauty, it wouldn't be as lovely. And so [00:24:35] it is interwoven. So those three truths can help us. They can almost [00:24:40] tether us sometimes when we feel like we are floating away and that none of this [00:24:45] makes sense.

And I hope that those can help you as [00:24:50] well. And that we will have times when we can discuss it more together. And I think that would be a [00:24:55] lovely place for you to be a part of the life groups, because they will be [00:25:00] talking about all of these things in detail and so much more as you [00:25:05] move through this journey and this new relationship with suffering.

This is 

Denisha: kind of so [00:25:10] helpful. There's so many little tidbits there that you're right. We could camp on for a whole [00:25:15] nother episode. Thank you so much for your experience, for your [00:25:20] wisdom, for taking the gifts and the understanding that God has given [00:25:25] you and sharing it with the world. It makes a huge difference.

And like you [00:25:30] said, we could definitely talk about each of those and hopefully we will in the future. [00:25:35] All of this is a little nugget from Susan's course, a new [00:25:40] song, and that is what we're going to be using through our life groups is a new [00:25:45] song course, and we're doing it as a 12 session journey, [00:25:50] because as you can see, Susan can say one sentence and you think I could [00:25:55] unpack that for the next six days, let alone a couple of chapters of full of this [00:26:00] information and knowledge.

And so as we do that, we're going to be doing [00:26:05] 12 sessions biweekly, so it's going to be 24 weeks total to give [00:26:10] everyone a lot of time to kind of chew on the material that you've provided us and then [00:26:15] come together in that safe place that we can share with one another and do this [00:26:20] journey together. Not alone.

It's so important to have not only is the Lord with [00:26:25] us as our traveling companion, as I am, but we would also love [00:26:30] to come alongside and sit with you as you go and walk through many of the things that [00:26:35] Susan has touched on today. So Susan, thank you so much. We [00:26:40] appreciate you. And I know you could give us so much more, but we're going to save some of that for the [00:26:45] future.

So Susan, how can we find you? [00:26:50]

Susan: You can find me on my website, so it's [00:26:55] thrivelifeskills. com and you can go there, you can see what's [00:27:00] happening, you can sign up for the newsletter, you can just contact me, there's a contact [00:27:05] portion there, or you can email at susanh at thrivelifeskills. [00:27:10] org and I'd be happy to hear 

Denisha: from you.

Well, thank [00:27:15] you so much for all of the work that you do, Susan, and I'm just so excited to [00:27:20] see what is yet to come. So, if you are interested in joining [00:27:25] to do Susan's course, A New Song, alongside other like minded [00:27:30] women who want to learn more about what to do with the pain and hurt and suffering in our lives, [00:27:35] You can go to our website at reclaim story.

com. And on the [00:27:40] homepage, there's a big green button that says register now for life groups. And we will be [00:27:45] offering them the beginning of the year and the second half of the year. So if you're listening to this [00:27:50] podcast and it's a little bit later, check our website, see if that button is up there and [00:27:55] know that it definitely will be coming up soon.

So our registration [00:28:00] cutoff for this half is going to be August 6. So if you listen to this before [00:28:05] August 6th, 2023, we hope that you would jump on and join the [00:28:10] journey to learn more about what do we do with suffering in our lives. Thanks to the material [00:28:15] provided by Susan Haubegger. So Susan, thank you so much.

We appreciate you and just letting [00:28:20] us get to know you and your heart more. It is such 

Susan: a joy to be with you. I look [00:28:25] forward to our times 

Denisha: together. Oh, us too. Well, thank you so [00:28:30] much. And we look forward to seeing you same time, same place next week. [00:28:35] Thanks for listening. I pray you found hope [00:28:40] in today's conversation and maybe even feel a little less alone in your [00:28:45] story.

Stay connected with us on Facebook and Instagram at Reclaimed Stories. [00:28:50] Want to learn more about living a reclaimed life and how you can be a part of our growing [00:28:55] community of reclaimers? Check out our website at reclaimedstory. com [00:29:00] All of those links and more will be in the show notes. And if you enjoyed this [00:29:05] inspirational podcast, be sure to subscribe, rate, and review.

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Susan: life.[00:29:20]