A New Song ~ Susan Habegger Ep. 104

What did we expect from this journey of life? And what has been our reality?
Bright skies... stormy nights... confusing bends... uninvited suffering? How do we respond? Or do we simply just get on with life? The journey through suffering toward healing may sound precarious, but it awakens courage and peace.

Today's guest is Susan Habegger of Thrive Life Skills and the author of A New Song course, which we will be launching soon through Life Groups. We can hardly wait for you to get to know Susan through this episode.

You can find Susan online at https://thrivelifeskills.com
Be sure to follow her on Facebook
You can also email Susan at susanh@thrivelifeskills.org

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Transcript

Transcript is auto-generated.

Denisha: [00:00:00] What did we expect from this journey of life and what has been [00:00:05] our reality? Bright skies, stormy nights, confusing [00:00:10] bends, uninvited suffering. How do we respond or do we simply [00:00:15] just get on with life? The journey through suffering toward healing [00:00:20] may sound precarious, but it awakens courage and [00:00:25] peace.

Today's guest is Susan Habecker of Thrive Life Skills, and the [00:00:30] author of a new song course, which we will be launching soon. Through life groups. [00:00:35] We can hardly wait for you to get to know Susan through this episode. [00:00:40] Welcome to Living the Reclaim Life podcast. I'm Danisha. We're glad you're here for [00:00:45] conversations that revive hope, inspire healing, and encourage you to live a [00:00:50] vibrant life with Christ.

So grab a cup of coffee as we chat with today's guest. [00:00:55]

Valerie: Welcome back to another episode of Living the Reclaim Life. This [00:01:00] is Valerie with Danisha and we are. So excited to have on our [00:01:05] podcast today, Susan Habecker, who we have been sharing with you about, and she has been [00:01:10] on our podcast before and she is coming to speak at our women's [00:01:15] conference we've been talking about here in Tucson, Arizona, and we are in partnership with [00:01:20] Susan.

To implement her healing material. And we are going to be [00:01:25] turning that into a 12 week course that we are going to invite women to [00:01:30] join the journey with us as we journey through our, the pain of our past toward [00:01:35] healing. So we wanna welcome you, Susan. Welcome to our podcast. 

Susan: Thank you. [00:01:40] It's wonderful to be with 

Valerie: you.

And I just wanna share a little bit about Susan. She works through her [00:01:45] humanitarian, nonprofit Thrive Life Skills, and this is their vision to [00:01:50] come alongside and walk with the suffering in the circumstances under [00:01:55] which they must live their lives. To provide hope and to discover a [00:02:00] courageous and peaceful way forward.

So thank you, Susan for being here, and we're excited to [00:02:05] have a conversation with her and let you get to know her a bit as we [00:02:10] talk with her about her mission, her passion to help women journey [00:02:15] toward healing. 

Susan: Thank you. 

Denisha: Susan, we had a really [00:02:20] interesting introduction and so thankful for our sweet friends, Rhonda [00:02:25] and Jeff, who brought us together.

I know I received a text one [00:02:30] day and it said, you need to meet this lady. You need to meet our friend [00:02:35] Susan. Well, tell us a little bit about Rhonda and Jeff. You can kind of tell our listeners a little bit about Rhonda and [00:02:40] Jeff and how this all came together cuz it was such a God moment. 

Susan: It [00:02:45] really was a timing miracle.

I lived in Colorado [00:02:50] at the time and I had no idea that Jeff and Rhonda were in [00:02:55]Colorado. I thought they were still in Arizona, which is where you got [00:03:00] to know them. And through my cousin, we found out [00:03:05] that they were literally 10 minutes down the road from me. And had lived there [00:03:10] for a year and I didn't know it.

And the interesting twist [00:03:15] in things was that we found out, and at that time I was then [00:03:20] going to be moving to Michigan. And so they had come and now I was going to be [00:03:25] moving, but we got together and we were just sharing about our lives [00:03:30] and I shared some things that had happened in my life and [00:03:35] they said to me, The reverse of what was said to you.

We [00:03:40] need to put you in contact with Danisha because her heart is in the same direction [00:03:45] and we just believe that God is bringing the two of you [00:03:50] together. And as afterwards, after we [00:03:55] did and we talked, and I'm jumping ahead and you can go backwards, but [00:04:00] I let Jeff know, both of them know that [00:04:05] we. The connection was good and God was going to use it.

And [00:04:10] Jeff shared, he said, I have tears right now because that's what we pray is for God to use us in [00:04:15] his work. And you never know exactly how he's going to do that. So Jeff [00:04:20] and I are actually twins. We were born on the same day, which was [00:04:25] yesterday on Flag Day in the same hospital. Our mothers were there at the same time, [00:04:30] so at least we'll always know how old the other one is.

Okay. That 

Denisha: is so fun. First of [00:04:35] all, happy birthday. Happy 

Susan: birthday. Thank you. Thank you. And Jeff [00:04:40] and Rhonda were both school mates of mine, so that's where we got to know each other. 

Denisha: [00:04:45] Isn't that fun? And we're so thankful for that encounter that you guys had, one to catch up [00:04:50] and two to connect all of us together because it really, as soon as we [00:04:55]heard your heart.

And you are years down the road in this work. You know this [00:05:00] ministry is four years old. The way you articulate the healing journey, the [00:05:05] way that God has just moved in your life to help other people, it was so [00:05:10] aligned. It was ridiculous. We are trying to write a curriculum at the time of some [00:05:15] sort of a healing journey that would walk people through the road to reclaiming your story [00:05:20] and then we.

Intercept with you and we thought Susan's already done all of [00:05:25] this. It's amazing and it's so aligned. So Jeff and Rhonda will always go down [00:05:30] as this. Incredible. I think you referred to it one time as a can't not do [00:05:35] moment. 

Susan: Exactly. Because we talked once. We talked again, [00:05:40] and I'm sitting in a chair thinking, why should they trust me?

You know, [00:05:45] in this whole thing, and why should I trust them? What are we doing? And it [00:05:50] was like, I couldn't not do it. It was obvious that no [00:05:55] questions. I mean, we asked questions. We did due diligence, but no questions to God. [00:06:00] Just an accepting of how he had brought that together. It's 

Denisha: so beautiful and now [00:06:05] we're a week away.

Well, by the time this podcast airs, it'll be like five [00:06:10] days away from a new song conference here in Tucson and a [00:06:15] month away from launching life groups using a new song [00:06:20]course that you've written. Tell us a little bit about what do you do for fun? Where do you live now, and then we'll [00:06:25] get into all the nitty gritty and all the rich history you have.

I have 

Susan: hopped around a bit, but [00:06:30] right now I'm in Michigan, close to Holland, Michigan, so we [00:06:35] love Lake Michigan. We love to go to the beach, even through the winter, just to see [00:06:40] the changes in what happens through the seasons. We moved here from [00:06:45]Colorado, and so we had the mountains there and now we have the water [00:06:50] and.

The water. The water touches me in a special way. It calms [00:06:55] me, it speaks to me, and I'm grateful that God has given that. [00:07:00] I say we, I have three daughters and I [00:07:05] live with my middle daughter, Melissa, and her husband and five children. [00:07:10] So there's never a dull moment around the house except for right now [00:07:15] because they're traveling.

So I'm. All alone with the cat. And so we do life [00:07:20] together and it's a lovely thing. I think sometimes [00:07:25] we think that we need to prove our independence, either as a young [00:07:30]person growing up or as an older person prove that we can do it on our own. But there's something to be [00:07:35] said for doing life together. So there are [00:07:40] advantages on both sides.

What it does for me is allows me to do [00:07:45] this work full-time. If I did not live with them, then I would [00:07:50] need to have a much larger income as far as providing [00:07:55] for my home and all of those things. So it helps us both. I think I'm a hope to [00:08:00] them as well. And I love long walks and I love to read and I [00:08:05] love the trees and when.

That was one of my requests for a home to [00:08:10] God was could I just have a couple of trees that I could look out my window? And [00:08:15] we live on two acres of wooded lot, so he really Oh, outdid [00:08:20] himself in that way. And we're very happy to be back in the Midwest, which is [00:08:25] where I grew up in Indiana and my daughters grew up in Indiana, so [00:08:30] Melissa is used to being here.

So we feel at home again. 

Valerie: I think we need to have a [00:08:35] retreat. I. At her house. Oh 

Susan: yes. 

Denisha: Trees and Water. Susan, you've had me at Trees [00:08:40] and 

Susan: Water. I know that was another connection. 

Valerie: Well, Susan, you [00:08:45] have such a rich history in ministry. Can you take us back to [00:08:50] 1994 and share some of what has brought you [00:08:55] to this point today and what you have written and how you minister to women?

Susan: That's [00:09:00] a long time ago, isn't it? You know, you know when you're doing dates [00:09:05] on things and you have to put a date and you keep scrolling down, and I'm like, whoa. You know, this is a [00:09:10] long time ago for when I was born and when I lived life. But I [00:09:15]guess I would say that I. Mission. The idea of mission has [00:09:20] been on my heart a long time since I was a young girl, and I always felt [00:09:25] that was going to be a part of my life, but I didn't know exactly [00:09:30] how and as so often happens, life.

Takes over. [00:09:35] And as I said, I have three daughters. They're all in their forties now, [00:09:40]but at that time they were going to school, they were doing all these things and you're busy as [00:09:45] a mom, and I was doing small businesses and interior [00:09:50] design and various things, and so life was busy. I began [00:09:55] in. 1985, I don't know how many listening to this are familiar with [00:10:00] Bible study Fellowship B S F, but I was a teaching leader in [00:10:05] Indiana with B S F for quite some years, and then [00:10:10] pursued the possibility of going overseas with that [00:10:15] ministry.

And that's what I did In 1994, the family went, the youngest [00:10:20] daughter, Jess, was in fourth grade and Melissa was in ninth grade, and Stephanie was in her senior [00:10:25] year. And we moved to Nigeria. So that was quite a change [00:10:30] for everyone, but it was a really wonderful time. And while there, [00:10:35] I taught the Bible and also started a women's center [00:10:40] for widows and taught them sewing and small business [00:10:45] and practical things.

And so that was our humanitarian reason for being in the [00:10:50] country, and I loved that. I love working. Hands on, [00:10:55] hands together with people in that way. And then in [00:11:00] 2000 was led to return to the US and [00:11:05] continued working with what was called Rafiki, which was the humanitarian [00:11:10] arm of B S F, and continued working with them [00:11:15] developing similar centers in 10 different countries around Africa.[00:11:20]

So I would travel and lead and help develop those [00:11:25] centers, and I loved it and began writing curriculum for them. And that was just the [00:11:30] seeds of things that were to come. And then in 2008, God [00:11:35] led me away from that ministry and took me back [00:11:40] about a year later on a visit to Nigeria. And he [00:11:45] used that time to.

Give me a call really through other [00:11:50] people who would sit down across the table from me and just share about their work. [00:11:55] In particular with women rescuing them from a variety of [00:12:00] difficulties and really traumatic lifestyles. And then [00:12:05] saying, now we don't know what to do with them once we rescue them. We don't know how to teach [00:12:10] them how to turn them on a new path.

And after about six conversations of [00:12:15] that, God had just said, Susan, this is what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to start writing [00:12:20] about this. And so I did and established a nonprofit Thrive Life [00:12:25] Skills and wrote from the perspective of [00:12:30] someone who. Almost needs to read what's being taught and learn that and then [00:12:35] use that to teach the people so it's very [00:12:40] user-friendly to the national who's learning that.

So everything from health and [00:12:45] relationships and scripture and so sewing and small business, those kinds of things. And [00:12:50] so I traveled with that and used that and sent that around. [00:12:55] Around the world to be used by nationals and mission people who were [00:13:00]on the field. And as I look over back over that time, I [00:13:05] think we often, sometimes we get to a place in life and then we look [00:13:10] back and say, all of these little steps led me to this place, [00:13:15] but.

I believe that each one of [00:13:20] those steps is a place unto itself, you know? So it's not just [00:13:25] doing that thing to get to this big thing, it's all of these things are [00:13:30] right there in that moment. It's valuable and it's whole [00:13:35] and it's right. And so when I look at that, [00:13:40] I don't want to. And I hope others in their lives don't jump over [00:13:45] all those places to get to something they feel is important.

But each one of those [00:13:50] areas was a place that God has for each of us to serve. And so [00:13:55] that's how I got headed in this direction. I love what you 

Denisha: said there, that each [00:14:00] step is a place unto itself. I think for me personally, I'm very [00:14:05] destination driven, and so that is, that's a reminder to me to enjoy [00:14:10] the journey that yes, does God build all of our.

Experiences on [00:14:15] top of one another. He definitely does, but that each step is a place to [00:14:20] itself. I think that's a good reminder. As you began writing these different [00:14:25]courses and empowering, and really, I hear a lot of empowering people, as [00:14:30] you begin to do that, what did you learn? What did you learn about healing?

What did God [00:14:35] sort of unfold for you in each of those steps when it came to helping others and their [00:14:40] healing journey? 

Susan: I imagined in myself, I [00:14:45] thought in myself that I had a heart for those who [00:14:50]had been suffering, for those who were suffering, and I felt that. I felt [00:14:55] that compassion. I felt that love. I loved living [00:15:00] and working in other places and connecting with them, [00:15:05] but I.

Don't think at that point. Now looking back, [00:15:10] that I really was able to connect with people in their [00:15:15] suffering. It took events that happened in my own [00:15:20] life. In 2013 actually, is when God opened my [00:15:25] own heart to. Real suffering to [00:15:30] a place where it wasn't an event that happened like a [00:15:35] hurricane or a crisis of some kind like that.

It was [00:15:40] more a pulling back the curtain and revealing a [00:15:45] reality that had been in place for. 40 years that [00:15:50] I knew nothing about, and then the fallout from [00:15:55] that unveiling. And so it was this unexpected turn [00:16:00] in my life, and suddenly life was precarious [00:16:05] for me, and I know that God was holding onto me because the [00:16:10] footing underneath me was very unsure.

I couldn't find a [00:16:15] foothold, and for the first time, I think [00:16:20] I came in touch personally with real [00:16:25] suffering, and much as of what I had done before, [00:16:30] it was not wasted. It was not bad. It was not any of those [00:16:35] things, but I realized that. It had not come out of a [00:16:40] pure heart of suffering. Suddenly I was a divorced woman.

I [00:16:45] was on my own. I was in unfamiliar territory, [00:16:50] and I needed to figure things out, and I couldn't use [00:16:55] pat answers with myself. And when you ask what I learned, I [00:17:00]realized that in many cases before, I had used very [00:17:05] quick. Pat, spiritual answers, and so [00:17:10] God then led me to begin thinking about. [00:17:15] Suffering to begin thinking about trauma.

He pretty much compelled [00:17:20] me because as we were talking before we started, I know Valerie mentioned something [00:17:25] that God really asked her to do, and then she was like, no, you [00:17:30] know, and then so when God put on my heart to write about suffering and trauma, I, it's like, [00:17:35] no, I don't want anything to do with this.

I don't have anything to say, [00:17:40] God, not at this point, but he compelled me. And I did. I began to [00:17:45] write about it from my heart and I hope and pray from [00:17:50] his heart as well as he worked through me and took me through that [00:17:55] process to be 

Denisha: able to work with women or men, I guess too, in [00:18:00] different countries, and to be able to have the empathy that it sounds like God was.[00:18:05]

Utilizing your story to create in you to be able to connect [00:18:10] with them. That's really, it's a beautiful place to sit knee a knee with [00:18:15] someone. Give us some examples of like a pat answer like, here's my [00:18:20] heartache. What would be a pat answer? I love this topic because I think we have a lot of [00:18:25] work that we can do to, to give some other options to those [00:18:30] things.

Susan: Yes, yes. So we often say things like, it's all going to be okay. [00:18:35] We say things like, you know, God has a purpose in this, [00:18:40] and there's something even in the way that we say it, but sometimes it's not the way we say it. It's just [00:18:45] the words. God has a purpose for this. You know, things are going to [00:18:50] get better one day.

This will be just a distant memory [00:18:55] and it could be worse, and all of those things may be true, [00:19:00] but in the moment, a person in the midst of suffering. Does [00:19:05] not connect with those, because even if it could be worse in that [00:19:10] moment of suffering, it is the worst for us. Right then. And we've talked about this [00:19:15] before, Dan and I, as to how suffering is not comparative, suffering is suffering, [00:19:20] and whatever we are going through at that moment, and so we [00:19:25] can't say.

It's not so bad, or it's not as bad as someone else's, [00:19:30] or, I mean, I don't even wanna say some of the things that we say, you know, you still have [00:19:35] this. We'll just be grateful for that. The loss is the loss, and so [00:19:40] we must be very careful. 

Denisha: That's one of the things that I value [00:19:45] so much, Susan, about your heart for the healing journey is one, it's not [00:19:50] the destination, it's the journey along the way, but your words and the way you know, [00:19:55] as we're collaborating with you and working together on a new song [00:20:00] that.

It has been so beautiful to watch how you really just sit down. I just [00:20:05] picture two friends sitting beside each other, you know, cross-legged, just sitting on the [00:20:10] floor and one, not trying to say, come on up. We're gonna be a quick fix. We're gonna, we're gonna [00:20:15] fix this quick. At least this didn't happen, or so many of the things that you just mentioned, and [00:20:20] I wonder if part of that is we are uncomfortable with suffering.[00:20:25]

Susan: Yes, it's. 

Denisha: Both the person in suffering and the person [00:20:30] wanting to sit with the person in suffering. 

Susan: Right. I think [00:20:35] that is very true because, and I have to be careful how I say this, but even [00:20:40] if we are the one who's attempting to come alongside, [00:20:45] if we're honest, if it will help us, [00:20:50] if that person who is suffering.

Begins to heal and [00:20:55] begins to what we think of as weave back into [00:21:00] life. As it should be. It helps us, it gives [00:21:05] us relief and we're able to then get back to our life as well, [00:21:10] so to speak. So we are not comfortable. It's like when you're talking, [00:21:15] you know how some friends you can be with in a car or on a plane ride or [00:21:20] whatever, and some friends feel like they have to keep talking.

Okay. And then there are other [00:21:25] friends that you can be quiet for a while and it's comfortable. [00:21:30] And it's okay and it's that. So it's that same feeling of being with [00:21:35]someone and suffering that there doesn't always need to be [00:21:40] answers in forward movement and all of that. Sometimes it's okay [00:21:45] just to sit and suffer.

And to come back into it as needed. [00:21:50] When I first took this course and went on the road, so to speak with [00:21:55] it, it was in 2015 and I went for three weeks to Mela refugee camp [00:22:00]in Thailand for the Myanmar refugees, the refugees from [00:22:05] Burma, and I went for three weeks traveling to various places in India. [00:22:10] And I had told God before I left [00:22:15] that I was not going to share my story, that I [00:22:20] was going to take the message that he had given.

And if he [00:22:25] ever wanted me to share my story in particular, he would need to have someone [00:22:30] ask me. And so I remember. [00:22:35] The first time in India that I spoke and I [00:22:40]shared, and this woman came up to me and pulled me aside and she looked me in the eye and [00:22:45] she said, Susan, I want to know your story because I know it's there.[00:22:50]

And so we sat and we talked for a while, and I [00:22:55] realize that. In all my speaking before, nobody would've [00:23:00] ever been able to see or sense that suffering in my [00:23:05] eyes and in my words because it wasn't there. And so that [00:23:10] was a real profound moment for me to know [00:23:15] that God was going to use this somehow. I want to encourage other people that [00:23:20]you may never know what that.

Purpose [00:23:25] is, it doesn't always turn out to be something like this. It can be something [00:23:30] quiet. It can be something, you know. [00:23:35] Mystical that you never know. It could be something in in the heavenlies that just because of [00:23:40] your faithfulness and your trust in God, that is impacting [00:23:45] other things that happen and other people.

But it's not our job to go [00:23:50] looking for what the purpose was. It's only our job to accept [00:23:55] it if God shows that to us. But it can be a variety of things. 

Valerie: I [00:24:00] know we've talked about recently how our calling can often come [00:24:05] out of our suffering, you know, and I think in scripture there's so many, you know, [00:24:10] so many stories of how, you know God brought somebody through suffering.[00:24:15]

For the purpose of being able to have that compassion [00:24:20] and identify with whoever you're going to be ministering to. And so, I mean, [00:24:25] that's just such the beautiful thing is, like I said, we wanna avoid suffering. Nobody wants to [00:24:30] experience pain, but just as Hebrews says, for the joy set [00:24:35] before the Lord, he endured suffering.

So there's, there is joy and purpose, but often the [00:24:40] suffering is. Partly where we experience the intimacy with Christ, right? [00:24:45] And the strength with Christ and where we're sitting in that suffering, so that [00:24:50] we can indeed come alongside somebody else and say, okay, [00:24:55] I know what it's like. I'm gonna sit with you, but I'm gonna hold that hope for you.

That there's [00:25:00] joy and there's purpose and calling to come. So it's just such a beautiful thing. [00:25:05] Susan, as we think about here in Tucson, [00:25:10] about soon leading women in person and online through [00:25:15] this healing course. Why don't you share a little bit about your experience? I [00:25:20] know you had experience in Colorado.

Of leading women through this and what that [00:25:25] was like, and how did they receive it? Because even in the United States, you [00:25:30] know, sometimes I think we do tend to be like, okay, we're gonna do this Bible study, [00:25:35] this book study, but this is very different journey and I know for many of our women it's gonna [00:25:40] be a very different experience.

So share a little bit with us about how that was [00:25:45] taking women through this course. 

Susan: Yes, I am very [00:25:50] grateful and excited about the fact that this is opening [00:25:55] up into the us. You know, sometimes I guess you would start here and go international and I kind of [00:26:00] started international and I'm coming back home and I'm so happy about that [00:26:05] and see reclaimed story as a door that is opening for that.

That's [00:26:10] another reason that God brought us together that I'm so grateful for. An open door that I [00:26:15] didn't have before, so I'm grateful to you all. We did have a [00:26:20] 12 session workshop, we called it in Colorado, in Erie, [00:26:25] Colorado, around the Boulder area, and we called it a new song. [00:26:30] And the way we would, maybe you'd say marketed it at in the [00:26:35] beginning was to use a verse from Exodus.

Exodus 2320 [00:26:40] that says, see, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the [00:26:45] way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. And so [00:26:50] then I just asked, how did we envision that place to [00:26:55] which he brings us? Because we've all thought of where we're going. We as [00:27:00] women in particular, might plan for that from the time we're.

Little girls, we think, how [00:27:05] is our life going to go? What will that look like? But then how is the reality [00:27:10] different from that place that we [00:27:15] expected? And the first session of the workshop was an [00:27:20] introduction to that to see if anybody was even interested, and we were [00:27:25] going to need to limit it to 20 women.

After the initial [00:27:30] evening because of the leadership that we had, and [00:27:35] so almost immediately we had all those spots filled and [00:27:40] realized that the women were waiting and hungry and [00:27:45] ready to begin talking about. Life [00:27:50] about this journey, about the expectations, about what has really happened [00:27:55] and about the suffering that has come along the way.

So we had women in their [00:28:00] twenties and thirties, and we had a woman who is 92. Women in their eighties. [00:28:05] We had the gamut of ages and what they were doing their [00:28:10] places in life. We had women who had recently suffered [00:28:15] and we had those who were reacting to things in the past. We had women who weren't [00:28:20] sure they had ever really suffered that much, you know, [00:28:25] until we began digging and thinking about things.

And so it was a. [00:28:30] Precious time of women opening their [00:28:35] hearts, maybe with a little fear and trepidation at first, and [00:28:40] maybe keeping the doors slightly shut, but beginning to see that this [00:28:45] was a safe place and a way to share. I believe that [00:28:50] a new song guides us through this process in a [00:28:55] gentle way, in a patient way.

One woman [00:29:00] was able to put her finger on an event that had [00:29:05] happened 80 plus years before and [00:29:10] understand how that event had been impacting [00:29:15] her relationship with God over the past years, and she [00:29:20] shared that with me very openly. I. It [00:29:25] was not a frightening thing for her. It was not a devastating thing for her.

It wasn't [00:29:30] something she needed to put in the newspaper. It was just there. It was real, and she [00:29:35] was able to make that connection. So this is not a. [00:29:40] Like six steps to healing. It's a time of [00:29:45] thinking and sharing. It's a courageous step into, I think a relationship with [00:29:50] suffering. That's kind of how I think of it, because there may be women who [00:29:55]say, as we had some who said, I've never really experienced trauma.

That's okay. You [00:30:00] know, that's not what we're going for, but we're going to discover ways that our [00:30:05] expectations were not met in some way. [00:30:10] And we discover how that has impacted us along the journey. I won't [00:30:15] say anymore about that right now. Maybe you wanna talk about that whole process a little bit more, [00:30:20] but it was a precious time together and I [00:30:25] so look forward to any opportunity to do that again.

Well, 

Denisha: we are so [00:30:30] excited to launch a new song through life groups at the beginning of [00:30:35] August. We're gonna be launching those groups. We're gonna have some online because we [00:30:40] have Reclaimers all over the US and in eight different countries, [00:30:45] and then also here in Tucson, in person and boy that we just [00:30:50] love that your heart is one that safe place.

Where you can begin to [00:30:55] explore those places where maybe we've closed those doors to suffering in our past and not [00:31:00] wanted to open and peek in there when you say a relationship with [00:31:05] suffering. Susan, I love that. Not that I love having a relationship with suffering, [00:31:10] hear me out there, but I love because we have a relationship with suffering.[00:31:15]

It's just a matter of calling it forward, naming it. [00:31:20] Examining it, reflecting upon what does that look like and how does that [00:31:25] play out in our lives each day? So when you give the example of [00:31:30] something that happened 80 years ago that was impacting a relationship [00:31:35] with the Lord today. That is real. We have a relationship with [00:31:40] suffering, whether we choose to name it and look at it and identify it, [00:31:45] or whether it plays out in our lives.

I love that gentle journey that [00:31:50] you take us on through a new song and those expectations. [00:31:55] I saw one time this like a math equation, and it said [00:32:00] expectations minus observation equals frustration. [00:32:05] And I, going back to examining what our expectations are and what we've [00:32:10] actually. Observed in our life is such a beautiful and tender [00:32:15] way to start.

I just on behalf of us and on behalf of all of the [00:32:20] women that are about to embark on this journey with you through a new song, [00:32:25] thank you for doing the work. We're so thankful for God for all that he poured in [00:32:30] and downloaded through you. To be able to serve women in this u very unique way [00:32:35] there. We have been looking for a very long time for some sort of a course, [00:32:40] some sort of material to utilize with our women.

That's not just another book study, [00:32:45] but that's something very deep, but very safe and sacred. [00:32:50] That is what a new song provides. So we are just so excited to launch that and [00:32:55] to have you come to a new song conference and kind of kick us off. And what [00:33:00] many people won't know is you're gonna have a house full of people two days [00:33:05] before this event.

As you train us and our team [00:33:10] and a couple other teams as well, to just how do we sit in suffering? [00:33:15] How do we help other people and examine their expectations versus their [00:33:20] observations in life? So we are just so privileged, Susan, just to know [00:33:25] you and to hear your heart, and to be able to partner with you in [00:33:30] getting this.

This style, this way of examining our past and our [00:33:35] present out to as many women as possible. That is our heart. Like [00:33:40] everybody should go through this. 

Susan: Well, I am [00:33:45] so grateful to you all for. Making this possible for taking this [00:33:50]from my computer and from my hands and from my heart and putting it out there.

I [00:33:55] think you had asked at one point in time, how is this different for someone who's listening, how is [00:34:00] this different from a Bible study, you know, that they've been involved in, or [00:34:05] another type of study, which are all, you know, we have such a [00:34:10] plethora of ways that we can. Study and [00:34:15] encourage ourselves and learn, and I think there are a [00:34:20] couple of ways that this is different.

I think one is he's into the [00:34:25] individuality and the personality of suffering in each woman. [00:34:30] So it's not a, it's not a generic answer. It's not, this is [00:34:35] what will help you, and so just apply these things. It's very individual, [00:34:40] and then it comes at suffering from the perspective [00:34:45] of seeing the need and then.

Discovering [00:34:50] the possible ways to meet that need. The possible men's, the [00:34:55]answers are often big, but if we take that big answer and try to [00:35:00] mold it into our needs, sometimes we don't quite know how to fit it correctly. [00:35:05] And so I think it's important for us to see the need first. And this, I don't [00:35:10] know if this will scare someone away or if it will actually help, but [00:35:15] God created us as, Sensory persons.

We are [00:35:20] multisensory. You know, we do a lot of reading and [00:35:25] listening, but we are so much more than that and he interacts with us [00:35:30] in varied ways, so, How it impacts you. Sometimes [00:35:35] even in a Bible study, it will say, how does this, how did this impact you? What does this mean to [00:35:40] you? But the only tool that we're given is words, and sometimes we can't [00:35:45] express in words what we really want to.

And so beyond the spoken language. [00:35:50] So we don't do anything strange or you know, mystical, but we do [00:35:55] look at things from all of our senses and how our emotions touch. What is [00:36:00] happening in us, and I think I envision that this [00:36:05] study that you'll do the. The chapters that they're sent, that this is [00:36:10] something that you don't complete and set aside, but that it stays maybe by your [00:36:15] Bible or it stays on the table beside you, and you go back to [00:36:20] it over and over again because you're rethinking, you're resing, you're [00:36:25]reapplying, you're revisiting and revising and [00:36:30] reminding yourself of these things so that it's something that is [00:36:35] tangible.

Your hands. And your heart. And your eyes for a long time to come. That's [00:36:40] my hope. I think that's encouraging 

Denisha: to take it [00:36:45] versus I don't think that scares us. I think that's very true. I know there are so many things [00:36:50] that my head knows and learns, but it doesn't always make it to my heart. [00:36:55] And that's that experiential piece of it when we actually begin to enfold it into our lives.[00:37:00]

Yes. And sometimes when it's only in our minds, when it [00:37:05] stays there, it doesn't always come out and flow out into our lives. So our [00:37:10] heart, our senses, I love that you incorporate all of that because that's how God made [00:37:15] us to experience all of that. So that's very exciting. [00:37:20] So I would say Susan, If a woman were listening right now and she were [00:37:25]thinking, okay, maybe they're in Tucson and they're gonna come to the conference.

Maybe [00:37:30] they're not, maybe they're in another state, but they're thinking, I think this is a journey [00:37:35] that I would like to begin a journey through a new song. What would you [00:37:40] say to that woman who's possibly wondering, am I ready for this? Do I wanna [00:37:45]do this? How would she know? What would you say to her heart?

Susan: I think I would [00:37:50] ask her to consider what that feeling of suffering or [00:37:55] pain of uncertainty, what that does [00:38:00] in her life. If that feels a bit like a wilderness [00:38:05] place that's hidden from others, maybe even from [00:38:10] herself. If you feel that way, if you feel like this is something that I [00:38:15] need to keep. Quiet because I don't know how to deal [00:38:20] with it.

What would someone else think? This is a part of my suffering, but [00:38:25] what I need to do is get on with my real life. I would say to you [00:38:30] that that place of hurt, that place of [00:38:35]uncertainty or doubt of pain, [00:38:40] is a part of your story. It is a part [00:38:45] of the way that you have traveled this [00:38:50] journey to this point, and until you come to the [00:38:55] place where you're able to weave [00:39:00] that pain into the [00:39:05] reality and expectation of your life.

[00:39:10] You will not have a really clear sense of [00:39:15] wellbeing. You will not feel the care of others in the way that you [00:39:20] want to. The surety of your ability to face what's coming in the [00:39:25] future. And so let's take those bits and [00:39:30] pieces and weave them together into something that is. [00:39:35] Actually beautiful because of the fact of the lights and the darknesses.

And the [00:39:40] joy. And the sorrow, and that is what we can do together. 

Valerie: Susan, if we were [00:39:45] to. Like I said, have a group of women in front of us. And what about the women who [00:39:50] say, but I've tried that, I've done that and it didn't work. What [00:39:55] would you say to those women who, like you said, are on the fence and just [00:40:00] still hesitant to try something new?

Because I hear that a lot, and I love what you said about the [00:40:05] journey. I hear that, well, I thought I had dealt with that. I thought I had healed from that. [00:40:10] Why am I still struggling with that? So how does this journey. [00:40:15] Address some of those doubts and questions of I've been there, done that. [00:40:20] Why didn't that work?

How is this gonna be 

Susan: different? Well, again, I [00:40:25] don't know if this will be encouraging or not, but that is the journey. That is [00:40:30] the coming to peace with suffering is those ups and downs, those [00:40:35] places of stall that. You are going to be, we are each [00:40:40] going to be hopefully, directionally correct. Okay. We're going to be moving in the [00:40:45] right direction and that is one of the things that, that we will talk about [00:40:50] in the small groups and in the sessions is how do I.[00:40:55]

How do I help myself? How do I see where I am at this point in [00:41:00] time? How do I catch myself when I find I'm [00:41:05] stalling in one place and I can't get past that? What do I do [00:41:10] at that point? But the very fact that we are [00:41:15] still experiencing those things just means that we are. A [00:41:20] human created in the image of God waiting for that time when all [00:41:25] things will be redeemed perfectly.

One of the chapters in [00:41:30] that you will talk about is called those moments, and [00:41:35] I'm not going to share the entire thing with you, but it's those moments, those screaming in the car [00:41:40] moments. So it's written from my perspective as [00:41:45] these. Sessions are that, that they come from my own [00:41:50] experiences. And so it starts out that I'm years down the road and I'm [00:41:55] helping others, and suddenly I'm in the car driving, [00:42:00] screaming in the car.

Those times happen. And what do we do when they [00:42:05] happen? We experience them. And we call somebody [00:42:10] and say, hold onto me, or we ask our traveling companion, our good [00:42:15] shepherd to hold onto us. And what I would say to the woman who [00:42:20] says I'm still experiencing some of these things is perhaps she's also [00:42:25] finding though, as I have that, even though I still experience [00:42:30] them, God never lets me go down to that same place where I was in the [00:42:35] very beginning.

Where all I could do was sit on the floor and say, just five more minutes. [00:42:40] He never lets me go to that place again. And so yes, we [00:42:45] experience those things, but it takes sometimes coming together [00:42:50] in a group like this and thinking through it in the way that we will to [00:42:55] realize what progress we actually are making.

And that those moments are not a [00:43:00] sign that we're not making any progress. They're just a sign that we're not [00:43:05] perfectly redeemed yet, and we will not be until some point far in [00:43:10] time when we are with our savior. Until now, we're gonna go through it together. [00:43:15]That's 

Denisha: beautiful. The picture that comes to mind as you say, we're never gonna be in the same place [00:43:20] again, is almost a spiral road up a mountain, right?

We're still on the mountain of [00:43:25] life until, you know, we are fully redeemed. But as we go around that mountain, we're never in [00:43:30] the same place. We might be on the same side, but we're not on that same exact spot. We're [00:43:35] always moving toward healing. Yes. 

Valerie: All set. Well, [00:43:40] Susan, we just wanna thank you so much again for joining us, and I know Dan, [00:43:45] Denise and I are excited to meet you in person.

I feel like we've [00:43:50] known you 

Susan: for I know. I know. But I'm ready for that personal meeting [00:43:55] as well. 

Valerie: Yeah. And so once again, if you are in Tucson, we [00:44:00] invite you to join the Journey to sing a new song with us, with Susan Hager [00:44:05] and Reclaim story will be there and many others here in Tucson on June 23rd and [00:44:10] 24th.

I can't believe it's coming up next week, but we invite you to do that. [00:44:15] And if you are not in Tucson, continue to follow us on social media. Subscribe [00:44:20] to our newsletter because we will be continuing to share. [00:44:25] Pieces of this journey and how you can join the journey and we will be opening life groups up [00:44:30] like Danisha said.

So if you're not in Tucson, you'll be able to still join that. [00:44:35] But we are just so thankful to you, Susan, and we thank you for sharing [00:44:40] more of who you are and your heart. That's what we wanted people to kind of get to know you, at [00:44:45] least, you know, through this podcast and become familiar with. Your heart and journey.

So [00:44:50] we thank you so much. And so Susan, how can we find [00:44:55] you? How can we connect with you on social media or through your newsletter? [00:45:00] How can we connect with you and your ministry of Thrive Life 

Susan: skills? Yes, you [00:45:05] can go to the website, which is thrive life skills.com. [00:45:10]Just all that together. I do have a Facebook page, thrive Life Skills.

You [00:45:15] can even email me, which is susan h thrive life [00:45:20] skills.org. And those are the best ways right now, and then I'm sure we'll get more [00:45:25] information out as time goes on as well. 

Valerie: Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, Susan. Well, [00:45:30] thank you again, and we hope that you, our listeners have found hope and encouragement through [00:45:35] our conversation, and we look forward to being back with you next time.[00:45:40]

Susan: Thanks for 

Denisha: listening. I pray you found hope in today's conversation, [00:45:45] and maybe even feel a little less alone in your story. Stay connected with us [00:45:50] on Facebook and Instagram at Reclaimed Story. Wanna learn more [00:45:55] about living a reclaimed life and how you can be a part of our growing community of Reclaimers?

[00:46:00] Check out our website@reclaimedstory.com. All of those links and [00:46:05] more will be in the show notes. And if you enjoy this inspirational podcast, be sure to [00:46:10] subscribe, rate and review. Not only will you be the first one to know when new [00:46:15] content comes out, but it is also a huge help in helping us reach more people [00:46:20] to live the reclaimed life.[00:46:25]